How far would you go to bag a T/P?

[Pharisee]

And I'm not talking 'distance' here. As we all know, a lot of T/Ps are on private land, behind fences, in secure enclosures etc. Deviating a few yards from a designated public RoW to get to a pillar is one thing but clambering over fences or walking through crops is something else. From my own point of view, I'm generally happy about leaving a RoW and following field boundaries or going through (or over) gates to reach a T/P providing I'm not actually being watched or on a farmer's doorstep, so to speak. A few of times I've been up to a farmyard to ask permission and only once has that been refused but I only do that if I can't reach the T/P by another route (I have this 'thing' about farmyard dogs!). On the odd occasion that I've been approached, an honest explanation has sufficed.
So... I'm not expecting anyone to admit to doing anything downright illegal, but in general terms, where do you draw the line between considering that a T/P is 'reachable' or considering that it isn't?

[Bear and Ragged]

Bit like yourself, how much effort is required to reach it, is it over looked -and likely to lead to confrontation... (although not in the violence sense!)

TP2844 - Druim Garbh (http://www.trigpointinguk.com/trigs/trig-details.php?t=2844), was well worth the effort of climbing the fence and fighting through the heather/grass/boggy bits! (And third to find! logged as KandG before name change)


http://www.trigpointinguk.com/photos/P46614.jpg

[ted]

John,

Out of interest, which trig were you refused permission to visit, and did the farmer give a reason why?

As regards unreachable trigs, I think I'd see a distinction between those where there was an "ethical bagging" problem and those where there were physical constraints. So for example, a visit to a trig in the middle of a field might be postponed until after the crop was harvested whereas for, say, a reservoir trig the issue might be the height and spikiness of the security fence :ohmy: May our tresspasses be forgiven :D

On a recent visit to a golf-course trig in Hull I spent nearly an hour walking all the way round the edge to look for a gap in the security fence before realising that it was easier to just ask for permission - http://www.trigpointinguk.com/trigs/trig-details.php?t=2992
- but I still don't understand why they had to go to so much trouble to prevent the golfers from escaping :blink:


Regards
Ted

[agentmancuso]

I still don't understand why they had to go to so much trouble to prevent the golfers from escaping :blink:


They're dangerous characters Ted; the heady combination of matching knitwear and rigorous social climbing is liable to explode without so much as a warning.

[agentmancuso]

but in general terms, where do you draw the line between considering that a T/P is 'reachable' or considering that it isn't?

In Scotland the legal position is of course very different, but personally the only things that stop me are A) a physical barrier, B) fear (of fairmers & their dugs, mostly), or C) a moral concern e.g. crops.

This last problem does not include F&M, No Access/Trespassing/Closed signs, or anything of that sort.

That said, I do try to give anything resembling habitation as wide a berth as possible, mainly for reason B.

[Bear and Ragged]

To turn the question around, at what distance will you consider the trig 'bagged' and loggable as such?

I like to touch a trig, but this is not always possible...
TP5678 - Ridgeway (http://www.trigpointinguk.com/trigs/trig-details.php?t=5678)

Some have been up to the trig, others -including me- have claimed it bagged from the path.


http://www.trigpointinguk.com/photos/P44077.jpg

[Pharisee]

John,

Out of interest, which trig were you refused permission to visit, and did the farmer give a reason why?

As regards unreachable trigs, I think I'd see a distinction between those where there was an "ethical bagging" problem and those where there were physical constraints. So for example, a visit to a trig in the middle of a field might be postponed until after the crop was harvested whereas for, say, a reservoir trig the issue might be the height and spikiness of the security fence :ohmy: May our tresspasses be forgiven :D

On a recent visit to a golf-course trig in Hull I spent nearly an hour walking all the way round the edge to look for a gap in the security fence before realising that it was easier to just ask for permission - http://www.trigpointinguk.com/trigs/trig-details.php?t=2992
- but I still don't understand why they had to go to so much trouble to prevent the golfers from escaping :blink:


Regards
Ted
It was Meall A' Chaise (TP4704) (http://www.trigpointinguk.com/trigs/trig-details.php?t=4704) on the Isle of Seil where permission was refused. The reason was that the farmer didn't want his grazing stock disturbed. He was very nice about it though and pointed me towards an alternative track. Great view from that one, incidentally. Well worth the climb.
I had to do more than a little 'sweet talking' to get to the T/P on Blackmore Thick Farm (TP1453) (http://www.trigpointinguk.com/trigs/trig-details.php?t=1453) though. The farmer was just a touch protective of 'his' monument :)
It's a reservoir T/P close to my home that I would like to get at. Clapham Road Reservoir (TP2195) (http://www.trigpointinguk.com/trigs/trig-details.php?t=2195) is, as it's name suggests, in an enclosed compound that has security cameras (at the front, anyway) and a tall spiky fence. The compound belongs to Anglian Water and I thought that as I worked in an industry that deals with them, my contacts there might be of some use but no. Having finally got through to the guy that has responsibility for the site, permission was categorically denied on account of it's strategic importance in supplying Bedford's water. Ho hum.... :dunno:

[agentmancuso]

To turn the question around, at what distance will you consider the trig 'bagged' and loggable as such?

I like to touch a trig, but this is not always possible...

Good question. As far as I can remember I've touched all the trigs I've logged with two exceptions, Kinniny Braes (http://www.trigpointinguk.com/trigs/trig-details.php?t=4240), which is in an arms dump of sorts, but can be seen across the Forth, and Cnoc Iolairean (http://www.trigpointinguk.com/trigs/trig-details.php?t=2283) which is right beside the road. Excuse for not going right up to this one is that I was so hung over that the effort might have killed me.

Both very recent. Standards must be slipping...

[Pyoung1s]

Yes, how far would one go? I suppose hanging upside down from the skids of a helicopter would be deemed rather extreme just to get that touch! :ohmy: :beer:

Couple examples from my recent Saturday blast across from Oxford into the Cotswolds. Resr pillar marked up and logged only as deffinately missing. The compound looking sad and neglected deserved a check so finding the fence already broken down I entered and was rewarded with a find on the replacement bolt! Very next cache another resr pillar also deffinately missing this time the compound was full of machinery and substaintial water works in place. Although there was no one about I considered it foolish to gain entry as no one would want to understand I was looking for the remains of a pillar with so much expensive equipment lying around!

I share your sentiments on avoiding damage to crops John, we are after all dealing with somebody's livelyhood. I regularly drive straight into a farm to find the land owner/manager and have yet to receive a refusal. One drawback though, why is it when you're on a charge through the countryside they always want to draw on half an hour of your time for a chat!

A happy trigpointing new year to all of you. 3rd/4th Apr 2009 Inn At Whitewell come and buy me a beer to wish me a happy 50th birthday! Hopefully see one of two you on my Take A Hike Adventure 2 - Centre of GB full details at cache listing GC1K7F1.

[Sagina nivalis]

Interesting thread - with piccies too!


Resr pillar marked up and logged only as deffinately missing. The compound looking sad and neglected deserved a check so finding the fence already broken down I entered and was rewarded with a find on the replacement bolt!

Which one was this, Paul?


3rd/4th Apr 2009 Inn At Whitewell come and buy me a beer to wish me a happy 50th birthday! Hopefully see one of two you on my Take A Hike Adventure 2 - Centre of GB full details at cache listing GC1K7F1.

You'll have to remind me how to find a cache listing - not something I do much of :D. Birthday do would be good. How was the Lyke Wake bash (TaHA1)?

If I can read the FB (with binocs or scope), I count it. If I can see the trig and not read the FB and access isn't possible, I reluctantly count it (Kinniny Braes and Mam Mor the only ones to date, I think).

My recent trigging has been extremely uncontroversial, in Scotland over Xmas, hence a bit late back to the Forum. Reminds me, I still need to log the last batch on TUK :lol:

[Pyoung1s]

Hi Rob, I've just woken up again! TP5578 is the one with the replacement bolt, if you're planning to go and check it out what out for the stampeed! TP7075 was the one with the works and machinery.

Geocaching, what's that?! Log onto the website and on the front page in the search box replace GCXXXX with GC1K7F1 and you'll pull up the cache listing for the event. If you want more details drop me an email with your email address and by reply I'll send you the route files.

Quality walking in Scotland I've no doubt you enjoyed yourself!

[Sagina nivalis]

TP5578 is the one with the replacement bolt, if you're planning to go and check it out what out for the stampeed!

Oh That one. Well found :applause:. Been there 3x already, looks like I need to go and update my log. How's it for access? A bit controversial to call it "Good" when no part of the original trig or base remains. But that's just my rules. Mostly they remain as DM even when the base is still there.


TP7075 was the one with the works and machinery.

Ach well. I've updated my old log with the FB number, FWIW. (I notice I had a FTNF (or whatever the inverse of FTF is :dunno: ).


Geocaching, what's that?! Log onto the website and on the front page in the search box replace GCXXXX with GC1K7F1 and you'll pull up the cache listing for the event.

I didn't even have the GC.com site on my favourites :o (at work; have at home - honest!). Fri evening noted - will see if I can make it. I've heard one of the Bowland Fellrunners going on about that particular Centre of Britain. Apparently there's a BEG (Bowland Exploration Group) peg there.


Quality walking in Scotland I've no doubt you enjoyed yourself!

Xmas and New Year - excellent weather throughout and some nice trigs in the bag. Also got to play with my new GPS :lol:
Rob

[agentmancuso]

got to play with my new GPS :lol:
Rob

Congratulations...

[Sagina nivalis]

... in general terms, where do you draw the line between considering that a T/P is 'reachable' or considering that it isn't?

Normally I'll only count a trig if I can read the FB number (either close-up or failing that, by binocs / telescope). I bend the rules for a handful which don't realistically seem accessible, permission isn't forthcoming and the FB isn't visible/readable from a distance. E.g. Plaistow, Mam Mor, Eastriggs and maybe the odd fort.

[Sagina nivalis]

It was Meall A' Chaise (TP4704) (http://www.trigpointinguk.com/trigs/trig-details.php?t=4704) on the Isle of Seil where permission was refused. The reason was that the farmer didn't want his grazing stock disturbed. He was very nice about it though and pointed me towards an alternative track. Great view from that one, incidentally. Well worth the climb.

As it happens I was there recently. I initially went up to the house but there was no-one around and no obvious way through. I took a diabolical ascent route but then found the "recommended" route (or a variation on it, from the village) on the way down which really is quite straightforward and very scenic.

[Pyoung1s]

TP4075 - Huntspill

After that one I can finally successfully answer this question!

Refer to OS 1:50,000 and this was my one hour forty adventure that should have taken fifteen minutes!

Parked at the open farm and accessed the footpath just to the east. After ten minutes cutting back brambles to get passage over the initial bridge I set off across the field only to discover there were no marked waypoints off the field. I wander around in confusion for a while taking photos of goats and wallabies before enquiring at the open farm where I was advised that the paths should no longer be shown on OS! Rather than debate that point I headed off to the west of the open farm to access fields at the end of the old lane. But not before taking a walk over the M5 to have a look for access to the west of the motorway.

So back to the east side walking parallel with the M5 I searched for the path link to the other side but encountered nothing but the drain and earache from the motorway! I continued on to the road to the south coming out near Withy Grove Farm, proceeded over the motorway again and found a gate into fields at the end of the houses.

Following farm tracks I eventually ended up at the drain but on what should have been the footpath directly opposite the pillar. Having got thus far I was determined that pillar was going to get a personal hug! I back tracked and found a crossing over the drain in the next field to the west and so I successfully got to the pillar!

Given that it was a shorter distance to the road north of the trig I headed back in that direction and had no problem finding drain crossings. Back to the road and back to the open farm where I rewarded myself with an ice cream!

I'm sure if the landowner had been watching me he'd have congratulated my on my persistence! There's a good chance I know his fields now almost as well as he does!

Paul

[agentmancuso]

It all looks fairly innocent on the map too. Though I guess the dreaded 'White Square' absence of a single contour line ought to raise suspicions. :ph34r:

[trigbagger]

I prefer to be able to touch a trig to count it as bagged but if access wasn't possible I'd count it as bagged if I could see it.

I trespass quite happily, many trig points just wouldn't be bagable if you stuck to rights of way and were put off by barbed wire, fences and chained gates, however if it's close to a property I do always ask permission first, and so far I've never been refused. But I wouldn't charge through crops to get to one, I'd definitely wait and re visit at another time.