New Forest Cache's

[Devils Advocate]

I have been sitting here reading the posts form both sides. As the letterboxers in the NF don’t relish the idea of publicity, then I’m afraid public and member only forums isn’t really the way to achieve this.

And what is the difference between letterboxing and caching, Technology, that is it when it comes down to it. Also some trinkets in the box instead of a stamp. The letterboxes are hidden in no different way to how a cacher hides them, the difference being utilisation of technology again, i.e. the internet.

One major difference that I can see is the benefits to Joe public and the environment. CITO, I don’t see letterboxers advocating such a thing, there is already the educational side of caching, is it not already being used in some facets of the National Curriculum! I do not see letterboxing being used in such a way.

All I do see is some folks, as quirky as us cachers getting upset for us playing in there back yard. There are comments about caching in specific areas and at specific times of the year. Yet one person has said that in all the years he has been out and about in the NF there has never been any signs or notices saying that entry to certain areas was forbidden, except for logging reasons.

So for my solution.. I think that all cachers should remove their caches from the NF so as not to upset those that control it.. Then lobby those that control it asking for all letterboxes be removed from the NF also.

This is the only sensible solution. Either we can all play in the area or no one plays in the area. And all those deer can get some peace and quiet.

PS The letterboxers seem to draw Sam’s and SSSI out like guns.. The NF is not the only place that has these there are thousands.. they are part of the environment as a whole.

I will now go back under me hi tech bridge switch on me PC and see what happens..

[The Wobbly Club]

I wholeheartedly agree, what's good for one is good for another.

Daphne & Colin aka The Wobbly Club

[Ashandes]

I might be missing something here but why should the GAGB be lobbying the forestry commission with regards to letterboxing?

I don't see anything in the aims or objectives of the GAGB as an organisation that would indicate such actions fall in their mandate. I don't feel a need to defend letterboxing, in fact I don't even know what it is exactly. But I don't think the GAGB should be lobbying anyone with regards to anything other than geocaching. If an individual wants to do so, that's obviously OK. But as an organisation if negotiating with land owners on behalf of letterboxes becomes something the GAGB does I think a name change and some fairly radical changes ot the charter should be implimented first.

[Teasel]

Come along children, play nicely or I'll take your toys away...

[fiddo]

For the record: Letterboxers, play with permission in the New Forest within the guidelines, laid down by the New Forest Rangers office 1989, when our permission was granted. We did not devise the guidelines for ourselves, we were told them, and we were grateful for what we had been given as it meant we could continue our game, albeit, with some modifications. We were told “what” is not acceptable to be placed ,the “Where” it can be placed , & “When” it can be “placed” & “searched” for.

As a New Forest Letterboxer I feel if Geocachers agreed to the similar guidelines they could also get permission in the New Forest

I have seen many incorrect statements expressed about New Forest Letterboxing on these public forums, especially during these last few weeks.

As an example, the no publicity rule was not devised by us but imposed by the Forestry Commission at the time, but so much has been said publicly on the forums during the last few weeks I feel I wont be breaking our guidelines further, in trying to publicly here to correct some of the inaccuracies.
If any one wishes to contact me directly concerning our guidelines feel free to contact me privately & I will endeavour to respond individually to friendly e-mails.

[Devils Advocate]

Originally posted by Ashandes@Oct 4 2003, 06:36 PM
I might be missing something here but why should the GAGB be lobbying the forestry commission with regards to letterboxing?

I don't see anything in the aims or objectives of the GAGB as an organisation that would indicate such actions fall in their mandate. I don't feel a need to defend letterboxing, in fact I don't even know what it is exactly. But I don't think the GAGB should be lobbying anyone with regards to anything other than geocaching. If an individual wants to do so, that's obviously OK. But as an organisation if negotiating with land owners on behalf of letterboxes becomes something the GAGB does I think a name change and some fairly radical changes ot the charter should be implimented first.
Could you please point out where I mentioned GAGB? I mentioned cachers.. nothing more

[Teasel]

Hello, whoever you are! If you wish to have fun poking sticks into anthills, please do so elsewhere!

If you genuinely believe that, rather than negotiating with the FC for recognition of geocaching, we should rather divert our energies into attempting to destroy letterboxing, then say so using your own name if you please.

These forums are for constructive and polite debate, not a playground for trolls and sock puppets!

[Team Tate]

I feel the need to step in a little here!
Yes, Letterboxing has permission to take place within the NF, so I don't feel that the GAGB should intefere with this. The FC has been approached by Geocachers in the past and due to a post which the local guys read on the forum regarding content of caches, they were unwilling to negotiate at that present time.
That forum discussion was quite a while ago, so we now need to rebuild our reputation with them by being aware of how Geocaching is represented and how our activities are undertaken. We need to show them that our GUIDELINES (and I stress guidelines & not rules) do match or maybe even better those of the letterboxers for the FC to take us seriously.
Any interference with letterboxing or using tit for tat methods could only damage our reputation more & we need to take things slowly & step back a while to prove ourselves before approaching them again.
This could go for any landowners reading these forums! ;)
Sarah x

[Muggle]

Originally posted by Team Tate@Oct 5 2003, 07:35 PM
Any interference with letterboxing or using tit for tat methods could only damage our reputation more & we need to take things slowly & step back a while to prove ourselves before approaching them again.
This could go for any landowners reading these forums! ;)

I wouldn't worry too much about what Devils Advocate has to say. He is just trolling and as he is someone who has done a fair bit of letterboxing himself his words are merely inflammatory towards Nattyboushka and nothing more. Similarly in his post of 8th September on the UK geocaching.com forum he also used a poorly conceived troll to have a dig at one of his perceived ‘enemies’ in the sport.

It doesn’t take a genius to work out the true identity of Devils Advocate. The poor grammar and spelling in his posts together with a particularly distinctive quirk in his sentence construction showed up the culprit very quickly.

The saddest thing of all is that behind the persona of Devils Advocate hides a long standing geocacher of some repute who was previously held in high regard in the sport. So sad..

[fiddo]

I look forward to the time when cachers stop discussing New Forest Letterboxing on a Geocachers Forum.

A very fed up Fiddo

[The Wombles]

I think the value of the debate on this thread has come to an end. We can certainly do without alienating any more support from Letterboxers or other potential sources. Please allow the (yet to be formed) committee to re-open dialogue with the authorities at the appropriate time. I remain unenthusiastic to lock the thread but will do so if it continues to deteriorate, particularly if there are any further personal attacks.

[Devils Advocate]

Works for me... Just hope it has given food for thought.. BTW Muggle I have been at this lark less than 3 months.. Longstanding NO.. repute.. working on it .. whether good repute or bad.!!!

[Muggle]

Originally posted by Devils Advocate@Oct 5 2003, 09:48 PM
BTW Muggle I have been at this lark less than 3 months.. Longstanding NO..
Hmmmmm...... :lol:

[NattyBooshka]

Despite knowing who sock puppets are... can we just say... who cares? We need discussions to be open and non insulting (Yes... been guilty oursleves... not preaching)

On the letterboxing issues... We apologise as we feel we used the word too much. For "letterboxing" in our threads, please read "off-trail organized passtimes" as they are not the only ones who abide by restrictions in place in the NF.

We're sure that the committee will endeavour to complete any negotiations at the right time, and we never wanted to be involved in this... we just had issues for the game that we felt needed raising. They were raised in good faith, without thinking of negotiations past/present/future although we see that we didn't seperate our concerns from discussion of the negotiations... we feel the two are seperate and apologies for allowing them to cloud each other.

[fiddo]

During the past few weeks some cachers have been expressing their opions/feelings/knowledge about "off-trail organized passtimes" even the ancient traditions of the Forest itself. Many of the comments have insulted me, as a member of one "off-trail organized passtimes"

Fiddo

[Moss Trooper]

Originally posted by fiddo@Oct 6 2003, 08:36 AM
"off-trail organized passtimes"
So if we now have "Off trail organised pastimes does that put letterboxing and geocaching in the realms of off road 4 x 4 driving, mountain biking, off road motorcycling.

Lets just call hobbies what they are.. Geocaching, letterboxing etc..

[NattyBooshka]

Sure Ian, letterboxing is letterboxing... geocaching is geocaching... 4x4 off roading is 4x 4 off roading... collectively they are all passtimes (hobbies, obsessions call them what you will) that invlove leaving the trail, which in places like the NF can, if not well managed, cause harm to a sensitive area.

My choice to stop saying "letterboxing" was due to the fact that it is not only they who have to abide by extra rules in the new forest. The "moderated" activities in the forest at cretain/all times of the year are all involve:


Being organised by a group of participants
Going off the trail/markde/established trails

They are all hobbies, I called it a passtime... so "off-trail organised passtimes" was a more relevant expression than "letterboxing" to the debate raging. I decided, as a letterboxer, to use that experience. Looking back this made people, including the sock puppet above, decide that this was a "letterboxing can do waht geocaching can't in the forest" debate... which is NOT the case. The case is/was that ANY group of people can participate in thier chosen off-trail activity IF and ONLY if it is approved, which hopefully soon will include geocaching.

[Muggle]

Originally posted by Devils Advocate@Oct 5 2003, 09:48 PM
BTW Muggle I have been at this lark less than 3 months.. Longstanding NO.. repute.. working on it .. whether good repute or bad.!!!
Hmmmm....

[Wood Smoke]

You may have edited this post, but you have to remember - those of us who get it as email, get the original :-)

WoodSmoke

[Muggle]

Originally posted by Wood Smoke@Nov 1 2003, 09:15 AM
You may have edited this post, but you have to remember - those of us who get it as email, get the original :-)

WoodSmoke
I am well aware of that fact thanks. :D :D