Standing Orders: any thoughts?

[paul.blitz]

Bearing in mind that we will be having an in-depth discussion on all aspects of membership, I am specifically NOT wanting to put ANTHING to do with membership into the Standing Orders yet!

So, here's my first thoughts

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Standing Orders of The Geocaching Association of Great Britain

A Elections

1. Whenever an election is required, the Executive Committee shall appoint a Returning Officer. It is strongly suggested that the Returning Officer should be a neutral party, and not a GAGB member.

2. It will be the responsibility of the Returning Officer to decide the form of the election (eg electronic online poll, by email…), and the type of vote (eg single transferable vote, multiple non-transferable vote…)

3. It is suggested that the election for Chairman be held first, followed by the election for the 5 members of the Executive Committee.

4. Results of the election (winners, number of votes cast for each candidate) should be posted on the relevant GAGB forum within 24 hours of the close of the election.

B Executive Committee meetings

1. Minutes of all Executive Committee meetings should be taken by an appointed member.

2. Agreed content of the minutes should be posted on the GAGB forums within 7 days, after having been agreed by the Chairman or other nominated Committee member.

C GAGB “property”

1. Members who hold any form of property (eg Domain names, Web accounts) on behalf of the GAGB will verify that they are willing to release this property to a nominated member at the request of the committee.

------------------------------

OK, lets bounce ideas around for a few days, then I'd do what I've done with the constitution, and post a suggested document for a week's discussion & a week's vote.

Can you think of any other things that ought to go in there?

Can I suggest (coz I did this whilst chatting to Dave (of The Wombles)) that you double check what the constitution says first... there's quite a few thing that don't need to be in SO's simply coz they are already in the constitution!


Paul B
(hoping he's using the right account this time!

[BugznElm'r]

Witrh regards to GAGB property, will the asset register be made available to the membership detail who holds what?

[MCL]

Erm... genuine question, but why do some things go into the constitution and some things go in Standing Orders? It strikes me that all the currently proposed standing orders would be the sort of thing I would expect to find in a constitution anyway? Can someone explain the difference?

:blink:

[Silkman]

Originally posted by MCL@Feb 5 2004, 03:13 AM
Erm... genuine question, but why do some things go into the constitution and some things go in Standing Orders? It strikes me that all the currently proposed standing orders would be the sort of thing I would expect to find in a constitution anyway? Can someone explain the difference?

:blink:
As far as I see it, the constitution cannot be changed by the current committee (it has to be changed by the membership) and the standing orders can. The constitution are the rules, if you like, and the standing orders are more guidelines. Yes they should be stuck to, but they can be changed. If that is the case, then everything about how an election is called, run and when would be best served in the constitution IMHO.

[Silkman]

Originally posted by paul.blitz@Feb 4 2004, 11:08 PM
Bearing in mind that we will be having an in-depth discussion on all aspects of membership, I am specifically NOT wanting to put ANTHING to do with membership into the Standing Orders yet!

So, here's my first thoughts

----------------------------------

Standing Orders of The Geocaching Association of Great Britain

A Elections

1. Whenever an election is required, the Executive Committee shall appoint a Returning Officer. It is strongly suggested that the Returning Officer should be a neutral party, and not a GAGB member.

2. It will be the responsibility of the Returning Officer to decide the form of the election (eg electronic online poll, by email…), and the type of vote (eg single transferable vote, multiple non-transferable vote…)

3. It is suggested that the election for Chairman be held first, followed by the election for the 5 members of the Executive Committee.

4. Results of the election (winners, number of votes cast for each candidate) should be posted on the relevant GAGB forum within 24 hours of the close of the election.

B Executive Committee meetings

1. Minutes of all Executive Committee meetings should be taken by an appointed member.

2. Agreed content of the minutes should be posted on the GAGB forums within 7 days, after having been agreed by the Chairman or other nominated Committee member.

C GAGB “property”

1. Members who hold any form of property (eg Domain names, Web accounts) on behalf of the GAGB will verify that they are willing to release this property to a nominated member at the request of the committee.

------------------------------

OK, lets bounce ideas around for a few days, then I'd do what I've done with the constitution, and post a suggested document for a week's discussion & a week's vote.

Can you think of any other things that ought to go in there?

Can I suggest (coz I did this whilst chatting to Dave (of The Wombles)) that you double check what the constitution says first... there's quite a few thing that don't need to be in SO's simply coz they are already in the constitution!


Paul B
(hoping he's using the right account this time!
Here's my take. There are two aspects to the GAGB from a regular members point of view. Firstly the negotiation of landowner rights on our behalf, for which we have the recently approved guidelines as a great staring point. Secondly, we have this site, membership, committee, limited funds, copyright ownership etc etc... so the regular "club" stuff. So... my take is, at this time we don't need 3 documents. I suggest that as we are starting out, the constitution should hold all of the above statements, but especially those pertaining to elections, within itself. The committee can then work within that constitution. If the committee makes a decision that sets a president, that should become a Standing Order (Committee Operating Guideline, call it what you will) and at this time the document should be born. The standing orders can then be refered to from time to time, precisdent can be reversed if needed, if a very sensible line comes into the standing orders it should be considered as a suggested change to the constitution etc etc. So, in my opinion, all of the Elections bit should be in the constitution as it stands. The EC meetings section should be in a new section of the constitution, and the property bit should go in the constitution where there is already reference to who holds copyright on name, content and images.

[paul.blitz]

Originally posted by BugznElm'r@Feb 4 2004, 11:30 PM
Witrh regards to GAGB property, will the asset register be made available to the membership detail who holds what?
No reason it can't be a simple web page even...

OK, I'll start: I have the official GAGB Tablecloth, given to me by T&J for safekeeping. B)

I am the formal name for the simply.com account where we hold the gagb.org.uk name(*), and I'll probably end up as the name on the gagb.org.uk registration. (Legally, GAGB can't be the registrant)

Teasel is currently the holder for the lunarpages web hosting (ie this web site)(*)

((*)Note: all the committee have logon details for this lot)

I don't really envisage that there will be a lot of "real" property!.


paul

[BugznElm'r]

Originally posted by paul.blitz@Feb 5 2004, 01:28 PM
OK, I'll start: I have the official GAGB Tablecloth, given to me by T&J for safekeeping. B)
Cool - the GAGB have a tablecloth! :D B)

[paul.blitz]

Originally posted by MCL@Feb 5 2004, 03:13 AM
Erm... genuine question, but why do some things go into the constitution and some things go in Standing Orders? It strikes me that all the currently proposed standing orders would be the sort of thing I would expect to find in a constitution anyway? Can someone explain the difference?

:blink:
Yes, a very valid comment / question... and one I think about too.

Generally, you tend to make the constitution as simple a document as possible, containing the core details of the organisation. As such, you shouldn't normally need to change a constitution very often (and besides, it needs 75% of vote to do so).

The "Standing Orders"... some places just have "Rules"... are typically the "detail".. for example, the constitution may say "there will be an AGM", your SO's might give more details of who does what, when the election vote is held during the meeting, who is responsible for making the coffee.

Depending on the organisation, the rules may be set / changed by the committee (that's the way at WHR), or by the members... and given that they are "just a document", it can be changed by a simple majority. Over time, this is more likely to get changed.

At WHR, the "rules" define what is expected of the members, things about broadcasting (eg something like "whilst there is no legal requirement, WHR requires members to adhere to the Broadcasting Standards set by the Radio Authority")... you'd certainly never expect to see things like THAT in a constitution.

Paul

[paul.blitz]

Originally posted by BugznElm&#39;r+Feb 5 2004, 01:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BugznElm&#39;r @ Feb 5 2004, 01:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-paul.blitz@Feb 5 2004, 01:28 PM
OK, I&#39;ll start: I have the official GAGB Tablecloth, given to me by T&J for safekeeping. B)
Cool - the GAGB have a tablecloth&#33; :D B) [/b][/quote]
yeah... its not fancy... a plain white cloth, with a load of logos on it&#33;

Isn&#39;t it so exciting??&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Ok, maybe not&#33;

Paul

[BugznElm&#39;r]

As an aside, since we were talking about the website, what kind of monthly data transfer limit does this site have?

[Teasel]

2. Agreed content of the minutes should be posted on the GAGB forums within 7 days, after having been agreed by the Chairman or other nominated Committee member.
Could I request this be increased to 14 days? This gives time for the minutes to be written and agreed by the committee, then posted to the full membership.

Eg I took notes at the meeting held on Sun 25th Jan, wrote them up and posted them on the committee forum last Sat, and will make them public this weekend. That&#39;s a more comfortable timescale, without being overly slow (and is the same as two other organisations I&#39;m involved with).


As an aside, since we were talking about the website, what kind of monthly data transfer limit does this site have?
See here (http://www.lunarpages.com/plan1.htm) for full details of the hosting arrangement we have. In brief: 800MB storage, 40GB/mth bandwidth, 1xMySQL database, 1xFTP, unlimited email, free telephone support, £4.75 pcm.

[paul.blitz]

2. Agreed content of the minutes should be posted on the GAGB forums within 7 days, after having been agreed by the Chairman or other nominated Committee member.
Could I request this be increased to 14 days? This gives time for the minutes to be written and agreed by the committee, then posted to the full membership.

Ok, that sounds reasonable to me.


paul

[paul.blitz]

Of course, there is one, rather fundamental, question that needs to be addressed regarding the Standing Orders: do the membership need to (a) vote to accept them; (b)vote to change them?

Let me explain this way: Standing Orders are an "additional document", and have a similar status to "rules" and other such documents. The Constitution of an organisation is the "baseline document": it defines who / why the organisation exists, the powers & limits of the committee, when meetings need to be held etc. As such, it is a fairly "limited" document (ie is doesn&#39;t go into huge amounts of real detail), and as such, usually doesn&#39;t need to get changed much.

In addition, you need other "formal documents" to explain the "day to day" things... these are the rules, standing orders etc.

In many organisations (I take WHR as my example yet again) the Committee have the explicit right to create and enforce rules. WHR has about 4 pages of rules. They include things like "the evening supervisor is in charge of the studios, and as such may ask anyone to leave the studios" (and that includes the chairman too&#33;&#33;&#33;). There are rules about what your responsibilities are if you can&#39;t do your show. There are rules about being involved in fund-raising. All fairly "common sense" things... but just written down. (In a way, a bit like the GAGB Guidelines)

The rules are pretty important things, but the point is that the membership have delegated that "management task" to the committee, because they are the "company managers".

And when you look at the Standing Orders I&#39;ve put together, they too are a set of rules / guidelines. They describe how an election shall be run. They say that the committee must keep minutes, and post them for the membership to read. They describe about looking after GAGB property.

Maybe the answer is to add a sentence along the lines "these SOs may be modified by the committee (within the limits of their powers granted by the constitution) without requiring a poll of the membership" and then ask the membership to vote to accept these initial SOs?

At the end of the day, the membership elects a committee to carry out the day-to-day running of the organisation on their behalf.... the committee then do a lot of things without ANY reference to the membership. The SO&#39;s simply formalise some of those things, so that everyone knows where they stand, and you don&#39;t end up with a big disagreement (often by a very small, but vocal, minority) every time you try to do something, especially when that something is very "public" (like having an election).

If the membership delegate changing the SO&#39;s to the committee, and don&#39;t like what they then do, then they can do what WHR members would do if they don&#39;t like the WHR rules: call for a vote and pass a suitable motion, or get rid of the committee&#33;



Paul

[paul.blitz]

I always meant to add a brief section to the SO&#39;s, but completely forgot, which simply described how to recall a committee member (ie boot them off the committee&#33;).

In addition, as per the previous post, I&#39;ve specified that the committee are allowed to change the SOs in the future (and if you don&#39;t like what they do, use section (D) below&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;)

So, here&#39;s the 2 new bits:

================================
D Recall Motions etc

1. If you wish to vote one or more members off the committee, then all you need to do is to raise a formal proposal (as described by section M of the Constitution): this needs the support of either 6 members or the support of “The Committee”, and needs at least 7 days notice (ie the vote will start 7 days later).

E Changes to these Standing Orders

1. These Standing Orders may be modified by the committee (within the limits of their powers granted by the constitution) without reference to the membership.

================================

(In addition, I changed section B2 (making committee meeting minutes available to members) from 7 to 14 days)


If noone has any problems with all this, I&#39;ll get a vote up tomorrow night.


Paul