Geocoin Theft

[Team Simpson IOM]

:angry:

I have logged a few coins lately that have been drilled or otherwise defaced by their owners to stop them being stolen by collectors. Technically that's what it is when you remove a coin from a cache and don't log it and keep it for your own collection. I have had a limtied edition Isle of Man Geocoin stolen form (GCXYDT) A53 Tak a tern on the old road Coin No TBNFB9 Tracking no PC3AMA

It's really annoying to think that a coin I bought has been taken and kept by somebody, but this is becoming all to common these days...

Also the owners put these coins out to travel around and give others a chance to see them.

So if you have ever kept a coin or know someone who has.... MOVE it on and don't be a selfish *$%& and don't spoil it for the rest of uswho play by the rules

[nobbynobbs]

i totally agree but at the end of the day the sort of person who will do this is unlikely to change due to a simple request.

i just wish there was a way to stop it. my only solution would be to send out a duplicate ie image of the coin and keep the original.

if someone is going to collect(steal) it i don't see how a hole is going to stop them.

within any group of people you will always get one or two who are that way inclined. unfortunately.

[Mrs Blorenge]

My sympathy to Team Simpson. :(

We don't have many geocoins, but those we have are out "in the wild" and each one has been drilled to have a small keyring with mission statement attached. I don't like defacing the coins in this way but, personally, I'd rather find a real coin in a cache than a laminate copy. As with any collectable item, I assume that those few cachers who steal will be looking for "perfect" specimens and hopefully the small hole will be enough to deter them from pocketing our coins.

[Grank]

Originally posted by Mrs Blorenge@Jan 12 2007, 09:15 AM
each one has been drilled to have a small keyring with mission statement attached. ... hopefully the small hole will be enough to deter them from pocketing our coins.
Unfortunately not. Of my original set of 7 Aussie geocoins released “TOUR IRELAND”, "TOUR UK" and "TOUR SCANDINAVIA” have gone missing, and another I am chasing up with the last finder. All are drilled and keyring goals attached.

Once they are confirmed gone, I rename them as “Stolen?” in the hope that if ever someone checks on the GC website so:
- if they took it, they may be somewhat shamed
- if they have been offered it as a trade, they may be warned that they may be trading with someone that may not be ethical.

On a similar topic, I have also had one of my caches “muggled” with all contents, log book, and cache located intact by the next finder but only a rare (in Australian terms) geocoin missing … seemed a bit suspicious to me.

So I must agree with the sentiments of the initiator of the subject and others. Although I do understand that people like to see new coins (I’ll visit caches I have previously found to “find” or “discover” a coin type I haven’t seen before), I cannot understand why someone takes it knowing that they are stealing it.

[Mrs Blorenge]

I have considered buying one or two of the rarer geocoins with a view to letting them loose in the wild but, in view of the comments above, maybe I won't bother now.
Yes, I suppose I could buy them and just take them along to Events to let others see them and log them but to my way of thinking that's not "playing the game".

[lost it]

Originally posted by Mrs Blorenge@Jan 20 2007, 11:55 AM
I have considered buying one or two of the rarer geocoins with a view to letting them loose in the wild but, in view of the comments above, maybe I won't bother now.
Yes, I suppose I could buy them and just take them along to Events to let others see them and log them but to my way of thinking that's not "playing the game".
shall we mention fairy theft?

[Mrs Blorenge]

Nope. That would be a completely different thread. ;)

[nobbynobbs]

feel free to start said thread.

i've got myself the england wales and scotland but no way will i realease them.

been tempted to send out copies laminated into the world to see at the end of the day too bad if people don't like that, they're mine, if i knew that they were safe the maybe i'd think otherwise.

[jimblonduk]

Ok, just supposing I visited someone who shows me their coin collection and I find a few that have been 'drilled', what should my course of action be ?

I havent, they havent and I would if it ever did.

Can they be reported to the GAGB, or maybe to Groundspeak with a view to their membership and therefore their access to co-ordinates being removed. I'm sure the police wouldnt want to know although with tracking numbers proving the offence shouldnt be too difficult.

Just my Tuppenny worth

[nobbynobbs]

tough one. i would personally ask ,in all innocence "why they are drilled" just to see what the person said. then say isn't that as bad as theft to keep them.

at the end of the day it'll never happen though as these coins get swallow into private collections of people who wont then show anyone.

it would be up to you whether you contacted the owners of the coins, name and shame them on the forums or similar.

officially i'm not sure that we have any guidelines as to what we would do on the website. obviously we would be without proof and our hands would be somewhat tied. i'd say that the best course of action would be to convince the person to give you the coins so that you could release them as soon as possible.

[Alice Band]

Would you believe even the copies vanish? A cacher near me placed laminated copies of the UK Geocoin in various caches after the originals got nicked. Several visits later and various logs report that the 'coins' were not in their caches (except one US copy). Who the hell took them? People who think it was a calling card? Newbies who don't understand the game properly? Having said that, I did meet a newbie once who thought all coins were left in caches for the finder to keep, not move on :rolleyes:

Looking at the gc.com front page and info page for newbies it seems that for some of the more intellectually challenged cachers the definition between taking and keeping and taking and moving on (if its a coin) becomes blurred. Of course there always will be the selfish thieves :angry:

Remember when some stolen TB&#39;s turned up on E-Bay? I have yet to see any coins with drill holes etc at events, but if I did I would take down its number and double check without saying anything to the holder via WAP. If its stolen then.....*mutter* *mutter* <_<

[Bear and Ragged]

Often wonder if the Stash note could be better worded.

"The only rules are: if you take something from the cache, you must leave something for the cache, and you must write about your visit in the logbook."

I wonder if muggles see the nice toy/coin tb, take it but fail to write anything... ?

[nobbynobbs]

unfortunately it will always be human nature. see something shiny take it&#33; those of us with morals don&#39;t take it forever those without aren&#39;t going to loose any slep no matter what the stash note or forums say. :(

[silverado]

i have seen the best result for travelling coins when they have been drilled and a laminated tag attached, it is vary confusing when i find a coin in a cache with no identification, is it a traveller or is it a trade item, a few times i have traded for a coin in a cache only to get home and find that it&#39;s a traveller, also when they are drilled they are less desirable for coin collectors.

[nobbynobbs]

i think that i still favour the laminated copy. at least if they get nicked it&#39;s easy to do another copy and send it out.

doesn&#39;t matter what you do to the real thing some will steal anything&#33;

[Alice Band]

Originally posted by nobbynobbs@Feb 13 2007, 05:33 AM
some will steal anything&#33;
Yes, we know Corporal Nobbs Esq. ;) :D :P

I&#39;m going to try out an idea from an American cacher - he places a large steel washer inside a plastic coin holder and a printed scan of the coin in question, drills it, then glues the lot shut and adds a tag. People apparently like it :)

[zwei ormers]

it is vary confusing when i find a coin in a cache with no identification, is it a traveller or is it a trade item

My sentiments exactly - found 2 coins in our second cache, one very helpfully tagged with a goal, and one GarminUK coin. We left the tagged one as we felt other cachers would be able to help it in it's journey better than we could, but took the Garmin one to see what the interweb said about it. Apparently it needs to go back in a cache sometime soon.

[Bill D (wwh)]

I've moved this thread from the General forum into this one. (This Geocoins forum didn't exist when the thread was started).

[ivanidea]

I have 2 Jeep coins, which I have activated, and attached the code to one of my Jeeps. I just hope nobody tries to nick it!

Probably have to wait for an event before anybody manages to discover them, since I have yet to find a cache large enough to park it in :)

Ivan

[gazooks]

I tend to let Travel bugs travel - geocoins are for my pleasure.

Having said that the only geocoins I have sent on travels is the Garmin geocoins because they weren't mine to start with and that is what Garmin intended for them.

The last time I checked all five were still on their travels.... so far.;)

[JollyJax]

For what its worth, I dont take copies from caches or even bother to discover them any more .. they are just Geo-tat that get soggy after a while...

I have heard of some experienced cachers that have threatened to dispose of such Geo litter if they come across it ..

I have released some of my coins and I have retained a number too. Once they leave me on a mission or indeed my TBs too, they become public domain items that I follow with interest on their travels. When they go missing, I am saddened but it was my choice to release them and accident or otherwise .. they are gone.

Policing or changing the attitudes of those that are intent on stealing or keeping found items in the woods is counter productive to enjoying the game and playing it in your own way, with others that also play the game your way.

Expect them to be stolen and release them for you own enjoyment - or dont buy them or buy and dont release .. its your choice.

As nobby nobbs says folks that steal will continue to steal ... We wont change human nature :rolleyes:

[Happy Humphrey]

I don't like copy geocoins, and won't move them on.

If you have a geocoin that you bought and really don't want to be stolen then the only solution is to keep it at home.

If you want to send a copy of a geocoin on its travels, I suggest the following.

Make your copy (either a laminated version or a dummy of some sort). Then, buy a travel bug tag (trackabulldogs are an attractive and cheap alternative) and attach it to the "coin", along with a mission tag and a clear explanation. The mission should be printed on a label which can be peeled off once the destination has been reached, to reveal the new mission underneath.

I WOULD move that on, as it's a legitimate travel bug and makes no claims to be anything else.

Obviously, it's not actually your geocoin, but then neither is a laminated copy that uses the same number. Obviously too, it costs a bit more; but then the actual cost was not the main issue.

[Mrs Blorenge]

<snip>Make your copy (either a laminated version or a dummy of some sort). Then, buy a travel bug tag (trackabulldogs are an attractive and cheap alternative) and attach it to the "coin", along with a mission tag and a clear explanation. The mission should be printed on a label which can be peeled off once the destination has been reached, to reveal the new mission underneath.

I WOULD move that on, as it's a legitimate travel bug and makes no claims to be anything else.... <snip>


Just out of interest... in this idea you suggest above, would you still have the tracking number of the fake geocoin visible so that it could be logged for the icon, if so desired?

[Watford Wobble]

Well it seems that a Northern Ireland 2008 geocoin TB2HEJB we released to celebrate our first wedding anniversary last year has been stolen. It didn't even make it's first anniversary.

It was stolen from GC1PPYE.

When I look at the coins log it's location is a question mark and then location unknown. So I guess the thief has stolen it and gone into the log and recorded it as unknown. Is that a correct assumption? Are they preparing to sell the coin?

Could the person that has logged the coins location be traced?

Fairly annoyed at this. I knew at some stage it would go missing but hoped it would last a little longer.

What are my next steps apart from go and 'kick the cat'?

[martybartfast]

So I guess the thief has stolen it and gone into the log and recorded it as unknown. Is that a correct assumption?

What are my next steps apart from go and 'kick the cat'?

No, Only you as the coin owner, or the owner of the last cache it was in can mark it's location as unknown. Most likely is it was in the cache, then it dissappeared, and the cache owner noticed it's not there either by doing maintenance on the cache or maybe subsequent visitors noted it as missing in their logs. You could try reading the logs on the cache and figure out roughly when it went missing, but that's about it.

It's happened to me both as a cache owner who's had trackebles go missing in my caches, and as a coin owner who's coin was also stolen.

You can't do anything else about it I'm afraid sh!t happens :(

[The Other Stu]

What are my next steps apart from go and 'kick the cat'?

It does seem a little odd when you look at the cache.

My thoughts would be firstly to contact ktoc. They are fairly new with only 22 found and may not realise that they need to log the geocoin swiftly.

The next user said that there was no coin in there so I guess the cache owner has just marked it as unknown.

I tried to help someone whose TB went walkies - we have a feeling who took it. They are in the log book but don't actually log caches online (it was a Scout group)

[Watford Wobble]

Thanks people for your help. I'll try contacting cachers and seeing if I can piece together what happened.

[Lime Candy]

Undoubtedly there are some thieving lowlifes out there, but there's also a lot of genuinely ignorant cachers. I used to think geocoins were coins - the clue being in the name - until I started to find things like enamelled lorries, golden space shuttles, mini Celtic spoons, pieces of blue train track, ornamental fans and the like. Granted - all of which had teeny tracking numbers (but only if you looked very closely). But I'm sure some items like these have been taken (probably fairly traded in fact) by cachers who think they are trade items.

I only have one geocoin (a Garmin one) which I released in exactly the same state as it was given to me. It's still in circulation, but I wish I'd attached a little sticker onto its plastic wallet - saying something like "please move me to another cache".

[DrDick&Vick]

what makes it hard to track back is that caches often do not actually name the TB or Coin that they are taking/dropping, just a 'coin/tb drop' or 'grabbed coin/tb'

[Bear and Ragged]

what makes it hard to track back is that caches often do not actually name the TB or Coin that they are taking/dropping, just a 'coin/tb drop' or 'grabbed coin/tb'
For this reason, I usually try to either put the TB's name, or a short description, of TB's in/out of caches. Both in the log book, and in the on-line log.

[deepdiggingmole]

Ok, just supposing I visited someone who shows me their coin collection and I find a few that have been 'drilled', what should my course of action be ?

I havent, they havent and I would if it ever did.

Can they be reported to the GAGB, or maybe to Groundspeak with a view to their membership and therefore their access to co-ordinates being removed. I'm sure the police wouldnt want to know although with tracking numbers proving the offence shouldnt be too difficult.

Just my Tuppenny worth


With regard to the police - I am aware that some Police forces would consider the matter seriously in that they would create a crime report and do any enquiries possible - it is a theft - though unless there are lines of of enquiry that could identify the offenders you will probably find the report 'filed - pending further information coming to light' - I know my local police would consider the matter as 'theft' as the item has been taken without the owners permission with the intent to permanently deprive - irrespective of how it was obtained (left in a plastic container in the middle of some woods - could be considered 'being dumped') - because the owner has control of it (to a degree) and it is owned then it is theft if taken.
I am aware that many cachers will not have reported missing property because of the unlikelyhood of there being a positive outcome and I am not sure how much information groundspeak would divulge if requested, but if anyone has an idea as to the identity of the thieves then I would advocate 'report it'

tim - ddm

[toxo]

I'm a newbie who is very confused by this thread. I thought the idea was to cache stuff that had no real value. If the only way to acquire a collection of coins is to buy them, why would you put them in a cache?
I would love to see something of mine go around the world, but would be just as happy if it was a traveling log sheet with no value that could be signed by everyone on the way.
I'm made up at finding this pastime. Me and the dogs have never had so much exercise and I found my first cache a couple of days ago. The problem now is that I'm reluctant to say that there was a coin in it and alert someone who has a mind to go and steal it and therefore it can't be right. If it stops geocaching working to it's fullest potential then surely we must stop putting anything valuable in the cache.
Just my tuppenceworth. I hope I haven't missed something and am talking out of turn. Just seems obvious to me that the longer it goes on, the more "collectors" there will be and it's well known that some collectors are not fussy about how they come by their collectables.

[Matthew 7:7 Too]

It's a risk you have to accept when sending trackables on their journeys. I keep a duplicate at home of coins that I particularly like - but then they're not fulfilling their real purpose of travelling around. There's less of an issue with trackable items as you can release things you don't mind losing. And the culprits aren't always cachers of course as muggles (ie non-cachers) have also been known to come across a cache (by accident or intent) and destroy it. The cache owner then loses his container etc as well as any trackables in the cache at the time.

Unfortunately there will always be some idiots who can't play by the rules, or who just enjoy stopping others from enjoying themselves.

On the other hand, I'll always treasure a moment when I was hunting for a cache in a large hollow tree. Then I saw what appeared to be the landowner walking towards me with 2 large dogs. I was conscious that I had strayed from the footpath through her land by a few yards, so decided to explain I was admiring the age and size of the old tree. "Yes" she replied, "and look here, there's a box hanging in it! People come from all over to write in a little book in it!" I felt I had explain that I was just about to do the same, and what geocaching was all about. She had obviously known about the cache for some time, but was happy to just keep a watching eye over it for the owner.

Chris

[toxo]

Nice story Chris.
I'm not up to speed yet on trackables and travellerbles but IINM, it's part of the game to log into the website and tell people where these things are when you find them, which is like a beacon to any lowlife in the area who just has to go pick em up.
It seems to me that collecting the bits and pieces is a spin off from the original objective of the game but it's grown to the state where I guess it would be impossible to change anything.
I do hope I won't feel too foolish when I learn a bit more in the future and look back over these ramblings.

Paul

[Doc]

Here is the State's I just got off vacation. I hit about 500+ caches in the
4 days I was gone. At one point in 87 Geocaches. In those caches
I should have found 37 Travel bugs but I did not find any. I tagged them to
check up on them to see if maybe someone before me picked them
up. After waiting two weeks they are still unaccounted for.

Coins are really a no no here. Drop a coin and it's gone. What I have
noticed after 20K caches is that cachers are making a photo copy of
the coin and putting them in a plastic coin container. Most of the time
you only find them at events.


Happy Hiking

Doc

[DrDick&Vick]

I tend to drill a nice hole or two in my coins, this seems to deter the 'collectors'

[bmatbev]

I am new to this and have not yet been out looking, but i intens to go tomorrow. How will I establish which items should be traded and which should be moved on? And by moved on, does that mean that I keep hold of them until i find another cache to put them in?

Sorry if i sound stupid, but i dont want to wrongfully take something that should be left in the cache or put things in the wrong place. I am very excited!! lol;)

[martybartfast]

I am new to this and have not yet been out looking, but i intens to go tomorrow. How will I establish which items should be traded and which should be moved on? And by moved on, does that mean that I keep hold of them until i find another cache to put them in?

Sorry if i sound stupid, but i dont want to wrongfully take something that should be left in the cache or put things in the wrong place. I am very excited!! lol;)

"Trackables" include Travel Bugs, which will have a (usually) metal dog tag on them with a tracking number; and Geocoins, which will be some sort of metal item, often coin shaped but also some come in the other shapes too, these will also have a tracking code on them. Both usually, but not always, say somewhere "trackable on geocaching.com".

If you take a trackable, you need to log the find on the website, using the link on the left hand side of the page for "Trackable Items", and yes you hold onto it until you find somewhere to leave it, but it's considered bad form to keep a trackable for more than a few weeks.

If you take a trackable item you don't need to leave anything in it's place.

Anything else is a "swap" item, and you're expected to leave something of equal or greater value in it's place.

Oh and welocme :)

[Mrs Blorenge]

Important...

If you find a trackable (a geocoin or a travel bug) and take it from the cache make a note of the tracking number on the item before you drop it off in a new cache.

A classic error is to pick such an item out of a cache, then drop it into another cache found during the same trip out. Then when you get home and have to log that you 'retrieved it from Whatever cache' and 'placed it in Theothercache' you realise you haven't got that vital tracking number to put in the appropriate box.

Then your stuck.

You either have to go back to the cache to find out what the number was or send an email to the owner explaining what's happened...