Landowner negotiations in progress

[Admin]

If you're in negotiation with a landowner, and you'd like to make it known to avoid anyone treading on your toes with them, post the details in this thread.

---
Bill

[KathyXB]

I am currently 'negotiating' with personnel at Eastleigh Borough Council about placing caches in several of their Countryside sites, since I would rather start by having their permission instead of just planting some!

So far hitting some walls (mainly they say they don't know about geocaching, they don't know what the Council's policy on geocaching is, etc etc). I hope that when its done with, they will be cacher-friendy councillors and also have a better awareness of the scale of the activity.

(and also, the fact that there are already lots of caches within their sites, something which seems to have escaped them so far...)

Kathy
:)

[The Forester]

I'm making good progress with the Muiravonside Country Park in central Scotland. Owned by the Falkirk Council, the park is run by the Head Ranger with whom I established comms a couple of months ago.

He's been exceptionally busy and has had to prioritise his time and understandably my geocaching request is not very high on his priority list. Understanding this, I've taken the softlee softlee approach and have limited my 'nagging' requests to a maximum of one email per month.

Today I had a face to face chat with him. He's pro-geocaching and favourably disposed towards us. I did have to overcome his misapprehension that caches are "buried". I explained our rule about never digging with any implement in either placing or hunting a cache and I mentioned the prohibition against using any animal runs hides or burrows.

He requested that I include a sentence on any cachepage declaring that under the wildlife conservation legislation which covers this protected area it is the Law that forbids the use of any digging implement or disturbing wildflowers or other wildlife.

One problem which I've addressed and resolved is that there had been, for a couple of years or more, an illicit cache within the Park. The illegality of that cache was compounded by the fact that the path which it was closest to was subsequently closed and barricaded for public safety as the water erosion had made the path unmaintainable. I recovered the cache a couple of months ago. It was waterlogged and comprehensively ruined by mildew, so its replacement will be a nice new waterprrof job.

I've got two or three very monor details to deal with before making the two caches live, but I expect to complete by the end of January.

The Head Ranger has my caching profile contact details, as well as my personal email and home address and telephone number. By arrangement, we've agreed that I am his point of contact in the event of any matters arising from either of the two proposed caches in the park. Placement of further caches within the property, subject to the usual 0.1mile GC.com rule, will be a simple matter of informing the Ranger of the proposed location.

This permission, which is now 99% complete, is only for the Muiravonside Countrypark and does not extend to other properties owned and operated by Falkirk Council, but I'm confident that after a few months of trouble-free geocaching we will be well placed to approach the relevant Rangers in other Council properties with a good reference from this Head Ranger.

[KathyXB]

Update on my approach to Eastleigh Borough Council reference placing caches on their managed sites:

Had an email from them a few days ago giving me the go ahead for cache placement! Hurrah! Their proviso was that they are placed according to Hampshire County Council guidelines (which I stated would be the case when I initially asked for their approval) and that I inform them of the exact location and what the cache looks like.

Another bonus of this was they said they would let the countryside officers/rangers know so that if the cache was discovered away from its proper location they would return it to position. Sounds like a very positive attitude and I think its fair to say they seem to be geo-friendly now :)

[Mrs Blorenge]

That's good news... very considerate of them, too :) Well done on your efforts!

[Cache U Nutter]

I am in negotiation with the BMC [ British Mountaineering Council] based Manchester :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[KathyXB]

Originally posted by Cache U Nutter@Feb 27 2007, 09:56 AM
I am in negotiation with the BMC [ British Mountaineering Council] based Manchester :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
What are you approaching them about? While I can understand that it is always good for different outdoor organisations to have a good relationship, the BMC are not landowners. Just was wondering if you could clarify?

[Cache U Nutter]

The BMC are land owners, i.e Harrisons, Stone farm etc.
They are also probably one of the major players in negotiating access rights in the U.K to areas of upland Britain, Coastal[ cliff sites]and areas of rock outcrops.
As a friend of their former National access officer I am well aware of the problems that are faced in trying to achieve access to these areas. Given the number of climbers and mountaineers/ fellwalkers in this country [ many, many times more than the current number of Geocachers] it would be prudent to learn from and cooperate with them to help our own needs. [[I also want to place caches on their land!!]
As a long time mountaineer myself with many contacts in the fraternity that is why I am talking to them. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[nobbynobbs]

excellent news. good luck. with any luck you'll be able to appraoch the landowners that have agreements with them and piggy back caching agreements. fingers crossed. not too many mountains down in hampshire though so it'll have to wait for a trip before i can make use of it!!

[Cache U Nutter]

Good point that about piggy backing on agreements, but a long way off yet! also not sure how individual land owners would feel about that ?

[nobbynobbs]

my thought were that if they have a greed to the climbers then they would possibly be open to an approach from cachers, especially when CITO is explained and so on.
by piggy backing i meant that if they have certain conditions already agreed then they may be happy for the same conditions to be applied to us, obviously only after asking them.

keep us informed and let us know if you need help.

[Cache U Nutter]

Will certainly keep you updated, will see what I can do

[nobbynobbs]

contacting the hampshire wildlife trust to try and get a general agreement accross all their sites.

[KernowCachers]

Here are the email replies I received following a request to place a cache on some NT land nearby. (Nearby being North Cornwall)

Dear Jan,

Your faxed letter of 26 March requesting consent to place a geocache on National Trust land between Minster Church and the Valency valley has been passed to me.

I am sorry that it has taken a little time to come back to you, but since receiving your request I have been making enquiries within the Trust about our experience of the impact of geocahes elsewhere. I am sorry to say that on other sites where these have been allowed the Trust has experienced considerable difficulties. In one case a property was extensively damaged by digging as people tried to find the geocahe and in others there have been significant trampling and erosion problems in the area around the geocahe location.

The site you suggest could easily be damaged if similar problems were experienced here and I am sorry to say therefore that we can not give permission for the geocache to be placed. I realise that this will be a disappointment and appreciate that the majority of people seeking out the geocache would act carefully and responsibly but, as I am sure you will understand, our priority must be to avoid damage to the site. I hope you will be successful in finding an alternative location.

Kind regards,

Ian Kemp.
Property Manager, North Cornwall.
-------------------------

From me:

I understand The Trust's position. Can you confirm if this would be the case for any NT land across Cornwall or would each location be considered independently upon request?


------------------------

Jan,

With the Geocahe being a relatively new feature, I don't think we have a clear position statement that covers the whole of the Trust yet. However, I am going to a meeting on Friday where I will raise this with the other countryside managers in Devon and Cornwall. I will hopefully be able to update you then.

Ian-----------------------

I'll let you know what the final outcome is. Hopefully I can at least negotiate a trial period at one location so that the office can have something local to base their decission on.

[minxyy]

Hi all just to let you know I am currntly in negotiations with the Borough of Poole to try to get them to agree to us placing geocaches on land under their durestriction!

I had a positive reply today via e-mail saying that they'd have to have a meeting about it and would get back to me in approx two weeks!

I have sent
-printouts of very good local caches
-copies of agreements rached with Hampshire
-copies of agreements wioth New Forest
-copy of CITO event in Oxford - also showing how well it was attended and the 'mess' they cleared out!
- a covering letter with web addreses for Gagb, Geocaching.com and Hampshire Council
- a list of possible locations for caches including a newly refurbished Poole Park!
- pictures of the different cache containers we use from micro to ammo

I have also offered to take them out Geocaching if they wish! Will have to pick some great urban ones!

Does anyone know of any agreement with Bournemouth Council As I note there are a lot in that vicinity

Any advice/support would be really appreciated

Many thanks
Manda

[nobbynobbs]

no idea about bournemouth, fingers crossed that an agreement was made........
best way would be to contact a few owners first and see what they say.

re the agreement.... do not push the new forest agreement, it is a little restrictive, better one is the hampshire county council.

good work. :)

[imajica]

I'm about to start asking Waverley Borough Council about placing a cache on their land. There is a Countryside Ranger that deals specifically with the area I wish to place a cache so I will contact him first but there is a good chance i'll get referred to somebody at Waverley or maybe even Surrey County Council.

I've not seen any previous agreements or attempted negociations but there are plenty of caches around, I'm worried that by asking for permission it might draw attention to these other caches :( I shall try asking some of these cachers if they have permission and if so go from there but i'm very sure they are not all permitted caches!

Hope this doesn't all backfire, i'll have the rest of the Surrey cachers on my back ;)

[t.a.folk]

We,ve found what we think could be a possible hidey hole in a tree near Boscombe Overcliff Gardens (Bournemouth )
but so far have chickened out of seeking permission from Bournemouth Parks Department to place a cache for the reasons stated above in previous two postings :unsure:

[KathyXB]

I can understand some reticence in asking about permission in an area where caches exist that may have been placed without an agreement having been sought but surely its better to start a negotiation than have the local authorities suddenly discover that there are caches (without permission) and shut down the lot?

I personally don't agree with the idea of keeping caching, or other pursuits, hushed up or secret in order to preserve the activity - far better to be open and honest and get councils on side so it can be encouraged (by good, well placed caches that bring people to areas of interest/beauty) and not become seen as a 'problem' to wildlife or land.

If you can contact local authorities/councils with a confident approach, able to show them you understand how to avoid negative impact on the areas, and show them well-placed local caches as an example, then I reckon reasonable officials will at least take the time to consider what you are proposing.

Go for it...

[Bill D (wwh)]

There have been previous instances where cachers have sought permission for caches in areas where there have already been caches in position without permission. Often the landowners have proved to be very understanding and co-operative, so don't let existing caches which may well not have permission deter you.

The worst scenario is that the landowner removes the existing caches, but if that happens, well, it was going to sooner or later anyway... As Kathy says, it's far better to be open and honest. :)

[nobbynobbs]

again i can only back up what kathy and bill have said. but first stage would be to contact the other cachers anyway.
at the end of the day they might well have permission to have those caches there and your belief that no permission could be erroneous.

then go ahead and open negotiations. it is easier to say sorry after us approaching them than the other way.

so hopefully we can expect an agreement from the bournemouth authorities soon then. :)

[t.a.folk]

Not from us ,we are feeling pressurised already ...and that's just from last few postings on here . :(

And apolgies to cache owners in Bournmouth who might now be reading stuff we didn't intend in our posting earlier .Our wariness is solely based on postings we,ve seen elsewhere in the past re cachers seeking permission from the landowners /managers etc and the landowners /agents etc knowing nothing about caches already there .

[nobbynobbs]

pressured? not my intention by any means. i interpretted your post as a desire to contact the council and formalise the agreements with them, but you being too reticent to commit so encouragement given.


would hate to think of people not getting out there and making agreements based on mistaken beliefs and fear.


same as anything in life, the more involved people get, actually doing more than wishfull thinking then the better it is for all.....

[Admin]

Bill and Pat, I certainly didn't intend to make you feel pressurised in any way! Yes, I know there have been cases of landowners being approached and then discovering there were caches on their land that they didn't know about, and some of those cases have turned out badly. But as I said above, sometimes it goes the other way... :)

Edit: Oops, I forgot I was logged in as Admin - this is Bill posting...!

---
Bill D (wwh)

[nobbynobbs]

so i'm assuming from that that no one is contacting bournemouth then? or is it all being left to minxyy.

good luck to them hopefully they will be able to acheive both, i'm sure that there will be lots of caches placed once permission is formalised. be good to have an excuse to get down to bournemouth caching again.

[imajica]

Well I have bad news. Waverley Borough Council have answered my initial approach email with a big no to Geocaching on their land. Which is... worrying :unsure: I daren't push this as there are many, many other resident cachers to think about. I'm really disappointed because i'd taken great care to write the perfect email.

In a slightly confusing twist they told me that the site I was requesting permission for isn't even Waverley land :blink: This baffles me as I live there and I'd emailed the designated Waverley Countryside Ranger directly from their website. So now I could contact Surrey CC, but to be honest I'm afraid of rejection on a grand scale.

[nobbynobbs]

your best bet is to try to contact the ranger personally to have a meeting. don't even say what about, just that you need to discuss a use of the land.

if it's the forest, could it be the forestry commission? might already be covered under their agreements with us.

any local cachers with caches in similar locations? worth dropping them an email to ask.

you often acheive much more talking to the local person instead of the faceless person in the main office. they tend to be very busy and it's just easier to say no.

[imajica]

I did try and contact the local ranger, but they're all in the same office and I can see my email has been forwarded via three different people further up the chain.

On a more positive note I tried Surrey County Council and the Senior Countryside Access Officer there has been incredibly helpful. He said that he wasn't aware of Geocaching but now realises what all these boxes are!

I'm now going to go on and attempt to arrange a trial agreement with the Surrey Wildlife Trust :)

[nobbynobbs]

good luck with the wildlife trust, i'm seeing the hants and IOW trust tomorrow. they aren't very positive at the moment time to turn on the charm.... :o i'm in trouble!!!

the trouble is people either get this hobby or not. the ones who don't are too busy worrying about us to be influenced!!!

[Bill D (wwh)]

imajica wrote:
He said that he wasn't aware of Geocaching but now realises what all these boxes are!

Well, at least he knew they were there and wasn't horrified...! Best of luck with your approaches!

[KernowCachers]

Here is the latest news re nogotiations with the National Trust in Cornwall.

Dear Jan,

I am sorry that I have been so long in coming back to you. However having now made contact with our national access and recreation section and done some more research, I am pleased to say that I am able to be much more positive about the prospect of a new geocahe located on our land.

I would like to take up the proposal outlined in your last letter and set up a geocache location which we can closely monitor along the lines you suggest.

Our requirements when trying to identify a suitable site would be as follows:

1. That the geocache should not be buried
2. That it should not be placed where other visitors are likely to find it
3. That its location should not promote ant potentially dangerous behaviour by others egg; It should not be necessary to have to climb or swim to the geocahe location.
4. That the chosen location should not disrupt any sensitive natural habitats.

I imagine that there will be plenty of scope to identify locations that satisfy these criteria so it should be possible to agree a suitable place for a trial. Once we have done this we can give it a go.

I would like to involve our Area Warden, Mike, in helping to identify and agreeing to the trail site so I am copying him in on this email and will ask him to make contact with you over the next few days to make arrangements.

I hope the trial proves a success and will be interested to see how it all works.

Kind regards,

Ian.

I'll think carefully before suggesting a location and placing a cache...... Lets hope this can result in a blanket agreement for the County very soon

Jan
KernowCachers

[nobbynobbs]

excellent work, can't wait for the cache. :D

[Bill D (wwh)]

Great work, Jan, that's really good! :applause:

[imajica]

Ok. I'm going around in circles with my requests so I'm after some advice :) The local ranger who I originally emailed has been on holiday, so despite being told no by someone else in his office i've now had a very helpful email from him:

"Hi Rachael.

Thanks for getting in touch. It's nice to be asked permission for geocaching.

...

Whilst we're in touch, I believe that there are a few other locations nearby that are under Waverley's management which are also being used for geocaching, and it would be useful to ensure that we as managers know where the caches are situated so that we don't remove them as litter for one thing.

I believe that caches exist on Frensham Common, Blackheath Common and possibly other sites within the Borough. Is there any chance you could provide further details of them?

Many thanks in advance."

Now what do I do? Contact all the owners? :wacko: Do a Pocket Query and lend him my GPS for the weekend ;) I want to help as much as possible obviously. I know for the landownder agreements there is a "geocacher contact", is that where I should be leading this?

[nobbynobbs]

it's a pain but my first action eould be to contact the owners of the caches to ask who gave them permission, could be that it's all legit and easily sortable.

if not then let them ranger know where they are and eat some humble pie to hopefully smooth over any aggro.

don't worry too much at this stage it might all fit nicely in place with permissions already granted. just because it's under their management doesn't mean they are the only people who can grant permission, someone owns the land :)

[Bill D (wwh)]

Imajica, I might be able to offer you a little help with this. Email on its way...

---
Bill, Chairman GAGB

[imajica]

I'm back again! Im not very much further forward but it turns out that (of those that have replied to me) either no permissions had been granted or it was so long ago that the details have been lost with previous rangers.

The ranger has spoken to his colleagues and it turns out that one has recently removed a cache so I was a little too late to save that one :( He has asked me to email grid references for a bunch of caches directly to the relevent ranger so that they can work out the suitability of the locations. Is it ok to do this if I don't get permission from the cache setters? I only hope these other rangers are as positive as the chap i'm currently dealing with :unsure:

Also - I STILL dont have permission for the cache I was getting in touch with originally :blink:

[Bill D (wwh)]

imajica wrote:
He has asked me to email grid references for a bunch of caches directly to the relevent ranger so that they can work out the suitability of the locations. Is it ok to do this if I don't get permission from the cache setters?
I don't see that there's a problem with this as it's information in the public domain. After all, they can if they wish get it directly from gc.com themselves.

[Happy Humphrey]

After success with Isle of Man official bodies DAFF (Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forests) and MNH (Manx National Heritage), I felt fairly confident about approaching the Isle of Man Water Authority for cache permission, particularly having been given a contact name.

I was seeking permission to place a cache on what is clearly IOMWA land, about 200 yards from the edge of a reservoir, up a hill and adjacent to a track. Permission refused: no right of way to access the cache area (true, although the track is in common use), and too close to the reservoir (not sure of the relevance of that one).

So I accepted the decision, and asked whether a cache with access by public footpath would be likely to get approved - "probably, yes".

A week later, I had the perfect site: near a reservoir again but right at the side of a public footpath (a very popular one for dog walkers and anglers). Approx 54°08.218'N, 4°40.445'W. A gentle grass slope leads gradually down from the proposed cache site for about 150 yards to the gently sloping reservoir bank (at a particularly popular spot for trout fishing). A bench just the other side of the path has been provided for admiring the scene. The path is well-maintained.

Permission refused: still too close to the reservoir, concerns about the contents of the box (which would have been a repainted ammo box, although they didn't check) causing water supply problems, also concerns about "security".

Although my original e-mail request had links to the GAGB guidelines, and explained about the cache not being buried, the contents being harmless and the visits infrequent, it appears that permission is never going to be granted within proximity of a reservoir. Is this the case elsewhere? Is there a precedent for a Water Authority to refuse caches on the grounds of a cache box causing health and safety problems?

I'm not THAT desperate to set a cache near a reservoir, but a little more correspondence may at least make them re-think this approach and smooth the way for possible future caches in what appears to be a highly suitable spot. Any suggestions as to the next step?

[Bill D (wwh)]

If you haven't already, I wonder if it would help to meet your contact in person, perhaps taking a cache container and contents along. It sounds as if the problems are at least in part due to misconceptions, and a face-to-face meeting might help things along. Best of luck with whatever you try!

[BillW]

Currently speaking with Stockton Borough Council.

:)

[blueboots]

[QUOTE=nobbynobbs,May 16 2007, 05:08 AM]good luck with the wildlife trust, i'm seeing the hants and IOW trust tomorrow. they aren't very positive at the moment time to turn on the charm.... :o i'm in trouble!!!


There is a place near my home that I would like to hide a cache but it is a Hampshire & IOW Wildlife Trust site. Can I approach them for permission for this single site or should I wait as you are negotiating with them? This would be the first try at hiding a cache.

[nobbynobbs]

Hang on as the agreement is for all their sites. still going through just slowly at this stage. PM me if you want to discuss the idea and location. :)

[reddeeps]

I just wondered if anyone had ever had contact with the environment agency. As theres a lovely old railway bridge here over a river owned by the EA, thats part of a public footpath. If not, does anyone have any objection to me contacting them?

[Bill D (wwh)]

I'm not aware of any geocaching contact with the Environment Agency, but I may of course be corrected on that. Go ahead and contact them by all means, and good luck with your attempt! If you need any help along the way then post here or feel free to PM me.

---
Bill, Chairman GAGB

[reelcutter]

I was advised to visit after going on the forums. I am currently in talks with the National Trust warden for Wenlock edge, we are quite a way along and we are going to meet to discuss it, so he knows exactly what is going on. He has been very helpful and likes the idea of people visiting the area.

[Bill D (wwh)]

That sounds very promising! Good luck with it, and let us know the outcome.

[reelcutter]

Hi I just posting a note to say all went well regarding the cache placement at Wenlock edge, due to the nature of the site we opted for an Earthcache. The National trust warden was most helpful but stressed the need to ask their permission before doing anything on the land he has in his care, which is fair enough I think. cheers Nigel & Jann.

[nobbynobbs]

good news, though i never really understood why anyone would think that people finding an earthcache would cause less disturbance or anything than for a regular cache.
a cache is better than no cache :D

[Bill D (wwh)]

I'm pleased to hear that you got permission! Wenlock Edge sounds like a marvellous location for an earthcache, and it'll bring the warden the extra visitors that he wants!

[sandvika]

I've approached Corporation of London with respect to granting permission to cache at Burnham Beeches, with a view to gaining consent across all their estates in and around London.

[sandvika]

I intend to approach Natural England with respect to establishing the GAGB geocaching guidelines (or as close as is possible) as accepted practice for geocaching in Sites of Special Scientific Interest (SSSIs) that are clasified as "open access" - where the public are permitted to go wherever they like, not restricted to posted rights of way.

There are very many existing caches in open access SSSIs, including recently published ones, however I have had a cache submission rejected because it is in an open access SSSI, albeit on common land. I think the fact that there is such inconsistency demonstrates that there is too great an onus on geocaching.com's reviewers and this needs to be mitigated.

As an example, Swinley Forest to the south of Bracknell, is not only a SSSI but also a European Special Protection Area (SPA) for rare ground nesting birds including the Dartford Warbler. Caches have existed here since the early days of caching and indeed one of them was placed with the explicit consent and participation of Bracknell Forest Borough Council.

Furthermore, Natural England's own public access database of SSSI's is woefully incomplete: Swinley Forest itself does not appear in the open access database, only in the general database.

The motivation for this approach to Natural England is therefore primarily to remove any ambiguity and make life easier for geocaching.com's reviewers. It would have the added benefit of providing a consistent approach applicable to other geocaching web sites too.

[The Wombles]

Sandvika,

Good luck with your negotiations. Let me/us know if you need any support.

[nobbynobbs]

good luck.

my cache "Stop and smell the roses 2" is on what was then english nature land and is a sssi.

it wasn't too hard to get permission from the local warden who was more than happy to come out and give the yes to the final location.

we did hope to expand upon it's success in introducing caching onto their land and showing that it had limited impact. unfortunately time, the change to natural england and a position move for the ranger knocked that idea.

i'm happy to help where possible.

[Bill D (wwh)]

Good luck with London and with Natural England, sandvika! Yes, there do seem to be ambiguities and inconsistencies regarding open access SSSIs, and it would be great to see things clarified. Let us know how it all goes.

[Brenin Tegeingl]

I'm sorry but in your post, you seem to be missing mentioning the need for the permission of the actual landowner as well.

Natural England is the Regulatory Body for areas classified as being a SSSI, the land is still owned by someone. And that someone is the person who needs to provide initial permission, refering it to Natural England if this person feels that their approval is needed.

Just have a agreement with Natural England does no by pass the need to have the actual permission off the landowner.

From Geocaching.coms Geocache Listing Requirments


Off-limit (Physical) Caches

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

As for your comment





There are very many existing caches in open access SSSIs, including recently published ones, however I have had a cache submission rejected because it is in an open access SSSI, albeit on common land. I think the fact that there is such inconsistency demonstrates that there is too great an onus on geocaching.com's reviewers and this needs to be mitigated.

The Reviewer in question simply followed standard procedure followed by all 3 UK Reviewers where we are aware a cache or caches are located in a area classified as a SSSI. And simply asked for contact details of the appropriate person acting on behalf of the Landowner who gave permission for the placement of the caches.

Something I personally can not see changing in the future.

Deceangi

[Lactodorum]

Originally posted by sandvika@Mar 12 2008, 01:37 PM
I think the fact that there is such inconsistency demonstrates that there is too great an onus on geocaching.com's reviewers and this needs to be mitigated.
I'm sorry if we seem to be failing to meet your exacting standards. However by denying your cache series all the reviewer was doing was applying a consistent approach we all take when we know a cache is in a SSSI. I'm sure that once the requested details have been provided the caches will be published.

Thank you for your concern for us though.

[sandvika]

Originally posted by Lactodorum@Mar 13 2008, 02:41 PM
I'm sorry if we seem to be failing to meet your exacting standards.
:o For the avoidance of any doubt, the standards that appear to be woefully inadequate are those of Natural England's current web services. :( Perhaps this is due to the fact that they are a new government agency and have not yet had time to get their act together, though I would have expected them to inherit their databases from their predecessors. Since their online databases don't correspond to reality on the ground on any of the several locations I queried :dunno:, you, as cache reviewers can only do your best with the information available, which I am certain you do. :halo:

Of course, if there is a landowner involved, they would be the first port of call, however, landowners are obligated to defer to Natural England anyway.

[sandvika]

Originally posted by sandvika@Mar 12 2008, 10:20 AM
I've approached Corporation of London with respect to granting permission to cache at Burnham Beeches, with a view to gaining consent across all their estates in and around London.
Refusal @ Burnham Beeches

:( It looks like I'm by no means the first to ask and the outcome is de-facto policy. Of course it explains why such a large "hole" in the geocaching landscape exists.


Thank you for your request. Requests for geocaches at BB are increasingly common. As the site is a national nature reserve it is essential to maintain the delicate balance between recreation and conservation. To that end I am consistently declining requests to place geocaches on the site..

[The Wombles]

Sorry to hear about this refusal. Thanks for letting us know, I've added this to the database as permission refused.

[starkey444]

Hi all, I've been in contact with Wokingham Borough Council since November 2007 asking them to reverse their decision to stop caching in their Parks - these included

Dinton Pastures Country Park
California Country Park
Highwood
Keephatch
Aldermoors
Pearmains Copse
Heathlake
The Moors
Warren Wood
The Millenium Arboretum
Lavells Lake Nature Reserve
Charvil Meadows

The good news is that I've received the following communication from them...

Hello Chris
I’ve spoken with Chris Buggy and he has asked me to relay to you that our decision is that we will consider requests from ‘individuals’ wishing to place geocaches at Dinton or any other of our sites, and will accept up to 3 at any one time depending on the site. This will enable us to monitor the geocaching and either be in a position to allow for more or reduce the number we have depending on how we feel it is working out.

I hope this clarifies the situation for you.

Kind regards

Hilary

Hilary Rothery
Countryside Service Administrator
Wokingham Borough Council
Countryside Service
Dinton Pastures Country Park
Davis Street
Hurst, Berkshire, RG10 0TH

RESULT!!!!

So if anyone wants to put caches in the above parks, they'll need to contact the Countryside Service where they will accept/reject/monitor the caching on their land.

Regards
Chris Starke (Starkey444)

[nobbynobbs]

well done :D :beer:

[Bill D (wwh)]

Congratulations on achieving that, Chris - that's really good...! :)

[djhipflask]

I've made contact with Stoke-on-Trent city council RE: placing caching on greenway land. Will keep everyone updated

[nobbynobbs]

good luck. :D

[Team Vorvik]

I have wanted to place a Geocache at a local Nature Reserve which is managed by Yorkshire Wildlife Trust so i arranged to meet with their Community Development Officer Vicky Harland. She listened to my descriptions of what Geocaching was all about and the guidelines that GAGB have used to gain permission to place Geocaches on others land/property, she seemed aware of the advantages of what geocaching would have on their sites and wasn't sure that this is what they would agree to. It didnt make my job any easier when she replied to me describing what geocaching was, with the statement "oh, thats what that little box was at Moorlands that we found, we didnt know what it was so we just left it there". This was found on a school educational trip to their site, she went on to say that she went back later to try and find it and it wasn't there, reading the logs for this site i wonder if thats the time it went awol and was found at another seat on the reserve and replaced at the correct seat? So i took this as a "NO, in principal to the site i was looking at", however the YWT have a lot of land and it would be a shame if this is the case, maybe someone with more experience would have got a different reply? However she did give me the name of a person who is in charge of open spaces and parks in York (York City Council) who i have approached and work is still underway on trying to obtain permission for caches that are already in place and caches in future, will let you know the outcome asap.

[Team Vorvik]

Have just had a message left for me which sounded very fruitful, it would appear that City of York Council are giving us the all clear to place caches on their land etc, i'm just awaiting the written permission be it in a letter format or via email.
:D :beer: :cheers: :applause:

Team vorvik

[Bill D (wwh)]

Have just had a message left for me which sounded very fruitful, it would appear that City of York Council are giving us the all clear to place caches on their land etc, i'm just awaiting the written permission be it in a letter format or via email.
:D :beer: :cheers: :applause:

Team vorvik
That's great, very well done indeed! I know you've put a lot of work into achieving this! :applause: :applause: :applause:

[mousytrap]

Still wondering whether there's an agreement for Environment agency yet. Can't seem to email Reddeeps to ask (see two pages back)...

[reddeeps]

Still wondering whether there's an agreement for Environment agency yet. Can't seem to email Reddeeps to ask (see two pages back)...


Hi
Some one has pointed me in this direction.
But no theres no agreement yet, its has been virtually impossible to find anyone to give me an answer. All areas are indiviually managed, they don't own all the land they manage, the individual area I contacted agreed on the phone that its ok, then 2 days later i got a call from the regional office, saying no way. I have tried to contact someone at head quarters but have never been called back. I must admit I have put it on the back burner for the last few months, as other things have been on my mind, but I could try again after xmas, or you are more than welcome to take it on.
You should be able to email me via my groundspeak account.
Thanks

[reelcutter]

Hi all, I have one years trial on a cache coming to an end in October and I was wondering if I get the all clear for it to stay, what do I need to ask for regarding a blanket agreement with them. Any advice would be great thanks Nigel.:)

[The Wombles]

Nigel, if it's a landowner with other locations then a blanket permission may need to be considered by someboidy else although a successful placement for a year is a great reference.

The first step to a blanket permission is agreement in principle, then agree any conditions and a process by which requests can be made.

I suggest you get yours agreed first and then ask if your contact is the right person to speak to about a blanket permission. If you'd like any help with the blanket permission then let me know.

[reelcutter]

Ok thanks, I'll see if I can get mine permanent first then proceed from there, Fingers crossed.
Nigel.

[Zpyder]

I've just finally written off an email to the person in the East Dorset Countryside management service to begin negotiations on placing a cache in a local forest that they manage. As I only just started the hobby in January, I've been waiting till I'd clocked up some finds. I'm hoping 35 under my belt will have given me enough experience to discuss the nature of caching as well as find a suitable location etc!

I will keep you guys informed. I think the location/forest is an ideal woodland cache and dash, with plenty of access routes and very well managed paths. I'm undecided on a short multi-stage or a classic cache!

[Zpyder]

I've been given the go-ahead RE: the above location

See copied email below:


Hello Chris

Thanks for asking permission and for your compliments re: the site.

I cant see a problem with putting a cache at Poor Common at all.

If you could send me details of the cache that would be interesting

Good luck with it

matt

[reddeeps]

I've been given the go-ahead RE: the above location

See copied email below:


well done

[dunk090]

Hello,

I've searched through this forum and can't find any reference to the FC Inverness district. I'm about to approach them for permission to place a cache on their land near Feshiebridge - if they're receptive then I'll see if it can be extended to their whole area. Similar to the Central & Lowland Scotland agreements.

If someone has already done this or is in progress, please let me know!

[Bill D (wwh)]

Re FC Inverness - good luck with your application! It can be a long-drawn out process sometimes, so be prepared to be patient.

We have agreements with FC Scottish Lowlands and FC Central Scotland in our database here (https://www.gagb.org.uk/land-agreements.php) - it might be useful to refer to those when you approach them.

We also have a Permission Application letter here (https://www.gagb.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=852) which anyone is free to use and adapt as appropriate if necessary.

[dunk090]

Re FC Inverness - good luck with your application! It can be a long-drawn out process sometimes, so be prepared to be patient.

We have agreements with FC Scottish Lowlands and FC Central Scotland in our database here (https://www.gagb.org.uk/land-agreements.php) - it might be useful to refer to those when you approach them.

We also have a Permission Application letter here (https://www.gagb.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=852) which anyone is free to use and adapt as appropriate if necessary.

Thanks Bill. I went through this before with a cache in an Edinburgh park - that took about two visits to the park rangers office in the end to get permission. But then I hadn't found the resources you have here to refer to...here goes!

[nobbynobbs]

Any update on the negotiations with natural england? or have they ceased?

[11011100]

Hi
Some one has pointed me in this direction.
But no theres no agreement yet, its has been virtually impossible to find anyone to give me an answer. All areas are indiviually managed, they don't own all the land they manage, the individual area I contacted agreed on the phone that its ok, then 2 days later i got a call from the regional office, saying no way. I have tried to contact someone at head quarters but have never been called back. I must admit I have put it on the back burner for the last few months, as other things have been on my mind, but I could try again after xmas, or you are more than welcome to take it on.
You should be able to email me via my groundspeak account.
Thanks

The Environment Agency do own bits of land but generally do not own rivers and riverbanks (unless they are floodbanks - and then sometimes they only have powers over them). Legal agreements seem to be managed by the Estates departments (sometimes the Legal dept), in the Regional Offices. You could try there...

[11011100]

If you're in negotiation with a landowner, and you'd like to make it known to avoid anyone treading on your toes with them, post the details in this thread.

---
Bill

As far as I can see, no one has approached the new Northumberland County Council, they have "inherited" all the land aquired by the old District and Borough Councils.

I am making enquiries now.

If anyone else has had contact with NCC in the past or is currently, please let me know.

Cheers!

David
11011100

[LoisInTheForest]

I've been away from geocaching for quite some time, mainly because of a serious back problem, but, after an operation just before Christmas, my mobility has been improving and I'm trying to make a gradual comeback! As a result of my wanting to place a cache on land owned and maintained by Ringwood Town Council, I've contacted the Clerk (who I happen to know from my full-time working days) with a view to getting permission for my cache and a general agreement of some kind, perhaps based on the one with Hampshire County Council. He's back from quite a long holiday on Monday, though, and probably won't be able to get back to me for a week or so. I'll keep you informed of progress.

[nobbynobbs]

Good luck with that. You know my number :)

[Bill D (wwh)]

I've been away from geocaching for quite some time, mainly because of a serious back problem, but, after an operation just before Christmas, my mobility has been improving and I'm trying to make a gradual comeback! As a result of my wanting to place a cache on land owned and maintained by Ringwood Town Council, I've contacted the Clerk (who I happen to know from my full-time working days) with a view to getting permission for my cache and a general agreement of some kind, perhaps based on the one with Hampshire County Council. He's back from quite a long holiday on Monday, though, and probably won't be able to get back to me for a week or so. I'll keep you informed of progress.
I'd noticed you'd gone "awol" and I'm pleased to hear that you're back and making progress! Good luck with Ringwood Town Council...! :)

[LoisInTheForest]

Thanks! :) I'll post info up as soon as I get a response to my e-mail.

[Duckers]

I have started communications with the RSPB and will report back if/when I receive a reply. Fingers crossed.

[Lord Asriel]

Greetings:)
An innocent enquiry, as a complete newbie geocacher, to Oxford City Council has provoked the following responce:
'No we don't, but perhaps we should. I have had some contact with
Geocache.com in the past and their local rep sent me a sample agreement
that they had with another LA. I regret that no progress was made in
modifying this to meet our needs but you have prompted me to dig the
info out and revisit the issue. I will contact you again in due course.
'
So suddenly I am a potential GAGB negotiator :ohmy:which I don't mind at all, but I see mention of a local (nameless) representative who has already been in contact, so I may have stepped on someone else's toes. So sorry...but maybe it will just prompt a response to the original enquiry. In which case...no harm done.
Pip pip!
Asriel

(Sorry, for some reason I don't understand, this post got trapped by our spam filter. Bill)

[Duckers]

Have received a reply from the RSPB which says...


"Thank you for your email. Currently I'm busy with various pieces of other work and I also need to consult with several other colleagues about your request. I will reply to you in due course, but please bear with me for the time being"

At least it is not a no, and hopefully a positive result will come from it.

[Bill D (wwh)]

"Thank you for your email. Currently I'm busy with various pieces of other work and I also need to consult with several other colleagues about your request. I will reply to you in due course, but please bear with me for the time being"At least it is not a no, and hopefully a positive result will come from it.
As you say, at least it's not a no - best of luck with this! :)

[LoisInTheForest]

It looks as though I'm getting somewhere with Ringwood Town Council and they've asked me to go to their Recreation, Leisure & Open Spaces Committee tomorrow evening. I'll let you know what happens.

[nobbynobbs]

:cheers:excellent news good luck

[Bill D (wwh)]

It looks as though I'm getting somewhere with Ringwood Town Council and they've asked me to go to their Recreation, Leisure & Open Spaces Committee tomorrow evening. I'll let you know what happens.
That's really good news - best of luck with it! :)

[severnside]

Hi

I am currently negotiating with the National Trust about placing a cache in the above park, which is also Shirehampton Golf Club.

At the moment they are being very helpful.
There is already a cache on this land, but i somehow think it has not had official approval as it seems to have been relocated there off "private" (sic) land !

:cheers:

John B

[LoisInTheForest]

Good news - Ringwood Town Council have agreed to allow caching on their land along the lines of the Hampshire County Council agreement. Their Clerk will get in touch with a view to formalising this, so what would you like me to do?

[Bill D (wwh)]

Congratulations - I'm really pleased to hear that they're being so positive! :)

An agreement on the lines of the HCC one sounds good - just go ahead, and let us know when it's signed and sealed and we'll add it to the GLAD.

If you need any specific advice or assistance feel free to PM me.

[Duckers]

Have just received a follow up reply from the RSPB:


Thank you for your email of 4 May. We are sorry that it has taken so long for us to get back to you. Your request was referred to the Wales Reserves Management Team so that they could discuss the geo-caching in the wider context of all Welsh RSPB reserves.

Although the RSPB supports outdoor pursuits that are compatible with our nature conservation aims we have concerns about disturbance to wildlife and potential health and safety issues. Therefore we feel that we have to refuse permission for you to put a geo-cach at the reserve.

We are sorry for this disappointment.

Yours sincerely

David Anning

Mid and South Wales Woodlands and Heathlands Sites Manager


Oh well, I tried :(

[Brenin Tegeingl]

Have just received a follow up reply from the RSPB:



Oh well, I tried :(

Would you please forward the email to me via my reviewer email address. I own a cache in a SSSI where I work closely with the Landmanager. The whole area has a Management Team on which the RSPB sit. I'd be interested in inviting Mangers from the "Wales Reserves Management Team" to the annual CITO event we hold around October in the SSSI. With the aim of also taking them around the Multi cache there.

It helps that that the Landmanager did a risk assesment, and also required the approval of CCW.

Please don't concider this closed as of yet!

Deceangi

[Duckers]

I will, but, am unable to get on the main site at the moment.

[Brenin Tegeingl]

I will, but, am unable to get on the main site at the moment.

So are the Reviewers :( so no new caches going live at the moment :p as both forums and database servers are down. It would appear to be a non GC issue that's causing the problem. Especially as the outage is unannounced.

Oh by the way you have a email message :D

Deci

[Duckers]

Oh by the way you have a email message :D

All done. Hope you get success :socool:

[t.a.folk]

Good news - Ringwood Town Council have agreed to allow caching on their land along the lines of the Hampshire County Council agreement.

...As featured in this weeks New Milton Advertiser ,page 16 , under the heading of "Electronic treasure hunts at Poulner Lakes " .

[LoisInTheForest]

Ooh! *runs over to Tesco Express to buy New Milton Advertiser*

[LoisInTheForest]

Well, the report's almost accurate!

[nobbynobbs]

was most impressed reading it while waiting to get my hair cut! :)

[muddypad]

I am currently in talks with the Berkeley Estate about placing Caches on their land. In the last meeting I had with the Land Manager, he himself suggested that if permission was granted by the head of the Berkeley Estate, that I would be the only person they will allow, so they know who they are dealing with and wanted someone local. I am now waiting on the meeting between the Land Manager and The Head of The Berkeley Estate.

[high beeches]

Currently I am working on both of these so that I can place a trail around Chorleywood. There are a lot of caches on TRDC land already, but Chorleywood house estate (owned by Three rivers council) is a local nature reserve so I am taking care. Also Chorleywood common is a nature reserve as well - but the parish council sounded very interested, and are discussing it today at thier open spaces commitee. I think I may have to place caches with the warden so he is happy with location.
Will let you know how I get on.
Sarah

[nobbynobbs]

The hants wildlife trust is a good way forward for nature resevres, basically has the warden/ranger present when placing caches...

[high beeches]

Had a letter today from the council 'the Open Space Commitee considered your request and have granted permission in principle. The Parish council have adopted a simialr scheme to that of the woodland trust and I enclose the application form for you to use. Once written application is received we will advise you accordingly'
The form looks just like the woodland trust form, but there are a few different bits, and they have reference GAGB and used cache guidelines lifted from this site as terms and conditions.
When my caches are approved I'll talk to them about posting this as agreement in princle on the site - they don't own a lot of land, but Chorleywood common is a great place!

Also have a similar agreement from Three rivers district council verbally- they want a tree officer to inspect any nearby trees first though (!) and are waiting on approval from conucillors (who have until 6th August to respond) They were very enthusiastic!
All prgressing well!
Sarah

[The Wombles]

Sarah, excellent news, well done and thanks. let us know when it's all in place and we'll add it/them to the agreements database.

[rutson]

I am currently in contact with Natural England who have put me in touch with United Utilities in regard to a cache placement on Unit 164 of the Dark Peak SSSI, Bleaklow Moor.

I will try to remember to update this thread.

[foreverlost77]

I've just contacted the Ranger, Trustees and Friends of.Catton Park in Norwich/Norfolk with a view to having some caches in there. They already have orienteering tracks, so here's hoping.

Will update the thread when things start to move forward.

[foreverlost77]

Permission has been granted for me to put geocaches in Catton Park by the Ranger, Matt. He has been very helpful in giving info on a suitable area which won't be having development work on in the future, and also which doesn't get used very much at the moment, which he's happy for us to make use of :cheers: Caches will be going online once hubby's done a test run for me :)

[westdorsetgardners]

Hi all just to let you know I am currntly in negotiations with the Borough of Poole to try to get them to agree to us placing geocaches on land under their durestriction!

I had a positive reply today via e-mail saying that they'd have to have a meeting about it and would get back to me in approx two weeks!

I have sent
-printouts of very good local caches
-copies of agreements rached with Hampshire
-copies of agreements wioth New Forest
-copy of CITO event in Oxford - also showing how well it was attended and the 'mess' they cleared out!
- a covering letter with web addreses for Gagb, Geocaching.com and Hampshire Council
- a list of possible locations for caches including a newly refurbished Poole Park!
- pictures of the different cache containers we use from micro to ammo

I have also offered to take them out Geocaching if they wish! Will have to pick some great urban ones!

Does anyone know of any agreement with Bournemouth Council As I note there are a lot in that vicinity

Any advice/support would be really appreciated

Many thanks
Manda

Hi, I have just got permission to hide a geocache in a park in Poole from the leisure and parks office, with the proviso that I do not place it near park boundaries and that I place it without causing any damage to the surroundings. :applause:
However when asking Bournemouth Council about placing one on kinson common, they stated that Bournemouth Council policy was that Geocaches were not allowed on any open areas or parks although there are already clearly hundreds already placed. The reason for this was that they found some caches dug in and that police could not distinguish between suspicious activity and that of geocachers?! I can sort of understand but it seems a bit unfair on all the impecable attitudes of cachers out there. :mad:

[nobbynobbs]

such is the problem when people don't bother to ask. turns councils against the hobby.

[Happy Humphrey]

such is the problem when people don't bother to ask. turns councils against the hobby.
It looks more like the council was advised by the police on the basis that they can't be sure whether the people digging are geocachers or crooks.

Perhaps it's time for geocachers in the area to be educated about the problems related to buried caches?

[t.a.folk]

Wonder on definition of dug in. :confused:
We,ve found nearly all the many caches ever hidden in Bournemouth(except the P.M. caches ) and never needed a spade or trowel .

[t.a.folk]

It looks more like the council was advised by the police on the basis that they can't be sure whether the people digging are geocachers or crooks.

Perhaps it's time for geocachers in the area to be educated about the problems related to buried caches?

Wonder if it is the "dug in " issue that is the real problem ,or incidents like the below logged on one of the Bournemouth caches .

"Had a go at this one with( name removed by us ) but our search was cut short by the Police turning up in a riot van to see what we were doing!
One of them knew about geocaching and we explained it to the others. Hopefully we will have a few more muggle coppers converted to Geo-Coppers :-"

[Happy Humphrey]

Wonder if it is the "dug in " issue that is the real problem...
Well, this seems to indicate that it is perceived to be the real problem...


...Bournemouth Council policy was that Geocaches were not allowed on any open areas or parks although there are already clearly hundreds already placed. The reason for this was that they found some caches dug in and that police could not distinguish between suspicious activity and that of geocachers?! ...
As to whether these were actually geocaches, I can't say. I think that the phrase "dug in" can only mean that they had to be dug up, which to me would indicate that they are not geocaches at all.

There does seem to be a general problem with landowners not understanding (and often not really caring) what geocaching actually is, so it could be yet another misunderstanding.

[t.a.folk]

However when asking Bournemouth Council about placing one on kinson common, they stated that Bournemouth Council policy was that Geocaches were not allowed on any open areas or parks although there are already clearly hundreds already placed. The reason for this was that they found some caches dug in and that police could not distinguish between suspicious activity and that of geocachers?!

Nobbynobbs often advises going to the Rangers in the first instance.

GC1A2AA , a physical cache on open area at Hengistbury Head, in Bournemouth has permission from the following

"Thanks to everyone at the Ranger's Office, Hengistbury Head, Bournemouth, for their co-operation in allowing this cache to be placed."

[countrymatters]

For some time, the placement of caches in Cuerden Valley Park in Lancashire, near Chorley, was not permitted. Since I became a trustee of the Charitable Trust that owns and manages the park, I have explained to the Park Manager about geocaching, and the ban has been lifted. There remains a need to consult with the manager because there are a few sensitive sites. But the reality is that I've placed a good series of caches around the park, which appear to have been enjoyed by everyone who visits. The Park website may still say that geocaching is not permitted, but that needs changing.:)

[Happy Humphrey]

For some time, the placement of caches in Cuerden Valley Park in Lancashire, near Chorley, was not permitted. Since I became a trustee of the Charitable Trust that owns and manages the park, I have explained to the Park Manager about geocaching, and the ban has been lifted.
That's really good work. :)
If it's not too indiscreet, it would be most interesting to hear what was behind the original ban and how the manager was persuaded to change his mind?

[Mad H@ter]

I am just opening negotiations with Bristol Council regarding permission for Clifton Downs and hopefully other Bristol parks will follow.
If anyone has made contact previously or currently negotiating with Bristol Council could they please let me know.

[The Wombles]

I got a generic permission from the Bristol Council's Blaise Castle and Kingsweston Estate in the early days of planning last year's Mega (we did consider a location nearby for the Mega).

The contact details are in GLAD, you could see how the Ranger feels about caching now and he may be a useful reference.

[Mad H@ter]

I got a generic permission from the Bristol Council's Blaise Castle and Kingsweston Estate in the early days of planning last year's Mega (we did consider a location nearby for the Mega).

The contact details are in GLAD, you could see how the Ranger feels about caching now and he may be a useful reference.
I've quoted/linked that agreement in my email to the ranger for Clifton Downs, so hopefully that should smooth the way a bit. I'm hoping that we will be able to extend the agreement to cover a number of Bristol council managed properties.

[Mad H@ter]

I should also mention that I've just started communications with Bath council, although I suspect that this might be slightly harder with Baths heritage status.

[Mad H@ter]

I should also mention that I've just started communications with Bath council, although I suspect that this might be slightly harder with Baths heritage status.
I have had amazingly quick success with Bath as they have already given written approval for Carrs Wood a local nature reserve and seem like they are very likely to accept some sort of overarching agreement for the parks and leisure spaces :D.

Will keep you posted.

Interestingly they commented that the only reason that the area is designated a local nature reserve is to 1) protect it from development & 2) to encorage visitors. They don't want it wrapped in cotton wool and preserved, they want it used and enjoyed. A very positve attitude IMHO, and likely to be good for geocaching.

[foreverlost77]

I'm now requesting permission from Norwich Historic Churches Trust to gain permission to place/base caches and multys in the churches they own and let out in Norwich. Fingers crossed.

[Paws 4 a Cache]

Hello all,

I'm going to contact Rushmoor Borough Council, in north-east Hampshire, to seek permission to place caches on their land... I haven't seen any other posts here by folks who have already contacted them. A number of caches already exist in the Borough, but I'm uncertain of whether a more formal type of permission has ever been sought. Specifically, we'd like to place caches along the Cove Brook Greenway - it's a great little greenspace in the the middle of a very built-up area. A volunteer organisation called the Cove Brook Greenway Group regularly looks after this stretch of greenspace, and I plan to involve them in the discussion/negotiation, since it could very well be one of their volunteers who might stumble upon a cache.

Thanks to Dave of the Wombles for the sample letter! I will be using that or a permutation of it on my first approach! Hopefully the fact that an agreement already exists with Hampshire County Council will help!

[Paws 4 a Cache]

Hi Again!

Well, I have managed to track down the Council reps who seem to be the best initial contacts, and have corresponded with a couple different people so far... so things are already moving along quite well. I'm now awaiting word from a Contracts Manager and another employee in that same department.

My question: As for the existing major landowner agreements posted here on GAGB - Are any of these agreements some form of signed contract document? Or have the landowners just given their permission and published guidelines on their websites for Geocachers? Do the landowners keep documents in their offices to refer to if other Cachers ask for permission (ignorant of what's listed on GAGB)?

I guess I just want to know as much about this process as possible, and what other Cachers have gone through, since I'm now in the thick of it myself!

Thanks!
k of Luna's Team

[The Wombles]

Yes I have signed contracts for some agreements and others may have done likewise. As you can imagine I have been very careful around these particularly in respect of public liability (which is a complete non starter for our agreements). Others include website content - eg Hampshire CC.

Different organisations have different ways of publicising or controlling this; they often have a central point of contact, sometimes distribute information and sometimes rely on the cachers to inform their people. For example the National Trust produced an internal guide (with our help) which could be referenced or distributed as required.

If you want any help or advice then feel free to let me know.

[Paws 4 a Cache]

Thanks for all your help, Dave! Would it be possible to send me a sample signed contract or direct me to where one is published on the web?
k

[The Wombles]

No problem but they vary and are usually specific to the landowner and circumstances. I suggest dealing with this after establishing the principe with the landowner ie under what conditions would caching be allowed, any excluded areas, what is the approval process can they provide electronic mapping to enable GC.com reviewers to apply the agreement to the right areas etc.

[countrymatters]

Just for the record, I have obtained consent from the John Muir Trust, who own the entire Strathaird peninsula on the Isle of Skye, to place caches. I already have caches on Skye, to which I am compelled to resort on frequent occasions during the year, and intend to place more early in December, while maintaining existing caches. Here's what the Trust have to say:
Thanks for your enquiry with reference to geocaching. We the John Muir Trust do not have a policy on it, but having read up on it, it appears a worthwhile activity and done by sensible people, with regard to the environment. You have our permission to carry out the activity on our estate at Strathaird. If there are any problems this will be reviewed at a later date.
The likelihood is that if anyone else finds the Trust as landowners, then here is a nice precedent to use - we are, after all, sensible people, like the man says.:)

[Bear and Ragged]

I've been called a few things in my time, but sensible??? :blink:

Good work! :applause:

[countrymatters]

The island of Ulva is adjacent to the Isle of Mull. I've been up there quite a lot recently in connection with work, and established a good relationship with the Laird of Ulva, who has encouraged me/given me permission to place caches on the island. So, I set ten caches to celebrate 10 years, and they seem to have been well received.

So, the island of Ulva landowner was an easy conquest...but then he's a skier and mountaineer, too, so maybe it wasn't that difficult.:)

PS If you're thinking of doing all ten caches on the island, you'll need a full day and the legs for a very long walk...but it's do-able.:D

[Paws 4 a Cache]

Hello again,

I have received a one line email from Rushmoor's Parks Development Manager, via his secretary, after sending him an email very much like The Wombles permissions letter:
I am content, there appears no detriment to the landowner.

He appears to be a man of few words. But I am content as well, for it looks like we can now place caches with Rushmoor borough's approval!

:socool:
Best to you all!

[Happy Humphrey]

I applied for permission from Mansfield District Council (back in April) and have received a standard e-mail response saying that the matter is closed (but no indication whether that means permission was granted or not). I'll try and re-open it, as my queries were met with similar meaningless replies.

More recently, I applied to Natural England about a cache in an SSSI. After a month, I've received an acknowledgement of receipt and an assurance that it's been passed to the relevant local office.

I'm regarding both as "on-going"; even though I've now given up with these caches, I hope to get permission and then either make another placement or pass the permission on to another cacher to use.

[Happy Humphrey]

Latest news on the Natural England permission is that they have no objection to the cache. However, as the land belongs to Thoresby Estates, further permission has to come from them and this has been denied for the site in question. Negotiations for an alternative are under way.

Nothing new from Mansfield District Council.

[Happy Humphrey]

Well; I discovered another site nearby, which the Thoresby Estates rep was happy with. Unfortunately, now it has to go back to Natural England as it's still in an SSSI (and nature reserve). But given their positive feedback on the original I'm fairly hopeful that the go-ahead is finally in sight!

[Happy Humphrey]

Just received formal permission from NE, so it looks good to go. :)

[Happy Humphrey]

Just to finish off the story; the cache has been placed and approved. It's in an area called Budby Heath, Sherwood Forest (http://coord.info/GC2NZ34). Hopefully, someone will visit it eventually!

[batzat]

Hi,

I am going to try & contact Surrey Wildlife Trust for permission to place a cache on their land, using the standard letter... I note that someone was in contact with them previously, but there is nothing recent.

I'll let you know what happens

[batzat]

I have had the following email response from Surrey WT...


Thank you for your email enquiring about geocaching on Broadstreet/Backside Common. I would be grateful if, in the first instance, you would you be kind enough to complete and return the attached Permission Application Form in this respect.

Many thanks.
Regards
Anne Clark

Surrey Wildlife Trust

01483 795440

Anne.Clark [at] surreywt.org.uk



This is the form that I have from Anne:



Surrey Wildlife Trust


Events Permission Application Form

ORGANISATION: .……………

CONTACT NAME: ……………………

ADDRESS: ……………………………………..

TELEPHONE: ……………………… EMAIL: …………………

VENUE: ……………………….
(Reserve)

DATE/S OF EVENT: …………..…………

TIME OF EVENT: ……………………

DETAILS OF EVENT:
…………………………………………………………………………………………..
…………………………………………………………………………………………..
…………………………………………………………………………………………..
…………………………………………………………………………………………..
…………………………………………………………………………………………..

NO. OF PARTICIPANTS: - Adults ….….…. Children ………. Total …….

NO. OF VEHICLES: …………………..

DATE OF REQUEST: ……………………….….



(For office use)

Agreed by Site Ranger: ……………………………………….. Date ……………..

Permission Sent: ………………….. Signed Copy Received: ……………….…..

Insurance (Copy Certificate Received): …………………….

Fee (if applicable): ………………

Event Complete: ………………...

[The Wombles]

I don't know if you've discussed this with them already, but we have two golden rules:

1. We don't pay for cache placement permissions: this could establish a principle and
2. We don't make generic permisisons which require insurance: caching has almost identical risks to rambling and should be treated in the same way.

Please contact me through my profile if you'd like futher information or to discuss these in more detail. Thanks.

[Paws 4 a Cache]

Since the time of this first Rushmoor Borough Council (RBC) tentative permission, the RBC Legal Team has become involved in my geocaching permissions queries. It slowed down the placement of our caches considerably, but we finally got an answer.

The RBC Legal Team has also given permission to place and hunt caches on RBC land, but NO formal agreement exists with them and is unlikely to exist in the near future.

PLEASE do not bring geocaching into disrepute by doing anything untoward while geocaching on RBC land. PLEASE follow the well-known geocaching guidelines and PLEASE do not cache on conservation areas or cause undue stress around park areas in RBC.

So sorry to be preachy, but RBC has made it clear to me that they will not hesitate to rescind caching permissions if they find there are any complaints about our activities or if cachers cause any perceived problems on RBC land.

If anyone has any further questions about caching on RBC land, please send me a message, I'm happy to help out!

Thanks and Happy Caching!

Kim of Luna's Team



Hello again,

I have received a one line email from Rushmoor's Parks Development Manager, via his secretary, after sending him an email very much like The Wombles permissions letter:
I am content, there appears no detriment to the landowner.

He appears to be a man of few words. But I am content as well, for it looks like we can now place caches with Rushmoor borough's approval!

:socool:
Best to you all!

[pennine rambler]

I am currently awaiting permission from Barnsley Council to place caches on various sites of redundant colliery sites in the Barnsley area. I will keep you updated of my progress.

PR

[batzat]

I havn't heard any more from the Surrey Wildlife Trust, but I have now written to Surrey County Council for permission from them for another location i have in mind. Fingers crossed!

[ljn199]

Hi,
I've made an initial contact with people about placing caches in parks which come under control of "Greening the Gateway Kent and Medway". I'm not sure these are the people who can say yes or no, but hopefully they will point me in the right direction. My specific query is Milton Creek Country Park, but hopefully a broader agreement can be reached. :)

[ljn199]

Swale Borough Council were extremely keen for me to place a cache in Milton Creek Country Park, and are already suggesting locations for susequent caches in the park! They think it's a great way to get people coming to use the park.

[DrDick&Vick]

Are they happy for this to be added to the GLAD if so do you have a contact name there?

[Fianccetto]

I adopted a cache on Chosen hill recently due to it needing a new container and log book. I contacted the Wildlife Trust as it lies in one of their reserves and received this reply:

I am sorry but we will not give permission for geocaches to be placed on our reserve.

This is an extract from our policy on non-wildlife related activities on Nature Reserves:

'Given the unique function of nature reserves there is a general presumption against any other activity taking place on nature reserves which is not linked to the overarching objectives of conservation, education, research and quiet enjoyment of the countryside. The Trust has decided, therefore, that activities not in accordance with the purpose of reserves will not normally be permitted.'
I have checked this with one of our Directors who has agreed that we will not allow this.

There are other parts of Chosen Hill which do not belong to the Trust so maybe you can get permission to place geocaches on these areas.

I have archived the cache in question (it was placed in 2004 and there is some wear on the slope by it which could be put down to geocaching over the years). However as this reads like a blanket ban I did reply speaking up for the educational and informative aspects of geocaching and suggested another idea where a path might be highlighted and plants identified to get coordinates for a hide elsewhere.

Should I be asking whether this affects all geocaches on GWT reserves?

Is there anything else I should be asking/ saying?

[Robtheranger]

Early negotiations have just begun with the North Yorkshire Moors National Park Authority, many thanks to Dave Edwards help on this one, there are already some great caches up there, and some potential for some excellent series hopefully.

[Beadystu]

Currently in discussion with Windsor and Maidenhead Borough Council. Slow going, I don't think anyone wants to take responsibility...

Update: On the agenda for the next comittee meeting.

[Beadystu]

Also Trying Surrey County Council and Runnymede Borough Council

[Beadystu]

Positive progress with Runnymede and Windsor & Maidenhead councils but no agreements yet. Surrey County Council are unresponsive.

Stuart

[countrymatters]

I'm in negotiation with the Macleod Estate on the Isle of Skye, and with the Scottish Government, who own much of the Trotternish ridge there.

Negotiations have already been completed with Forestry Commission, Skye and John Muir Trust.

[frosty68]

I'm not in negotiation, but thought it might be useful to make public the contact details for The Lord of the Manor of Rochdale, not too sure of the boundary of his land (and I've looked), but rain (http://coord.info/GC37TDR) and whitespace (http://coord.info/GC1AF96) are amongst those caches on the land, which is also SSSI.
The contact for his agent is andrew@crossley-estates.co.uk and he seems ok with giving the permission when asked.

[northking]

Details of my negotiations to date:
Broxtowe Borough Council - agreement formalised in line with a Geocaching policy that mirrors our own. GLAD being updated.
Newark & Sherwood DC - agreement in progress, Geocaches allowed with notification.
Notts County Council - as above (N & S DC), considering a Geocaching policy which they may require GAGB assistance in writing.
Shropshire Wildlife Trust - contact made, happy for current Geocaches and agreement to remain, consent still valid.

[Mnementh & Rustica]

I have approached Buccleuch Estates (large landowners in Southern Scotland). Any response will be posted here.

Good caching

[N0hope]

I am currently talking to Claydon House, Buckingham (NT). They cannot give permission for any caches on the NT's land at this time as the NT are planning to put several of their own caches out around the house. Their will be free loans of GPSr's once the caches are put out.

[welsh_gal]

Hello everyone,

Just to let you all know I've just sent off a request form placing caches on land belonging to Isle of Anglesey County Council. Fingers crossed :)

[Brenin Tegeingl]

Anglesey have a CC Ranger lead Geocaching Walk, during the Anglesey Walking Festival, and have been very supportive of Geocaching, very rarely refusing Permission when asked.

A Blanket Agreement would be brilliant

Dave

[Sharon - Sharant]

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress. Yes a blanket agreement or who to contact within Anglesey County Council would be great to add to GLAD.

[Sharon - Sharant]

Testing new vBulletin Emails

[twoofnine]

Leadhills Estate, South Lanarkshire

Negotiations are currently underway with the land manager/owner of the Leadhills Estate, South Lanarkshire. Details of progress will be posted here. The GAGB landowner database manager can be contacted on glad@gagb.org.uk

[twoofnine]

FC New Forest & S. England Land agreements

These agreements are currently being renewed. The renewed agreement is scheduled to commence 01/01/2016.

The GAGB landowner database manager can be contacted on glad@gagb.org.uk