I'm confused!!!!

[GeocacheJoe]

I'm trying to figure out who's rules I need to follow to place a cache ... the one's here or on the site that lists them? If I follow the rules on geocache.com, will they be removed if they don't follow the rules here? Are the caches checked by this site before being listed on the other site????

There seem to be two sets of rules ... rules about bags and animal holes and so on.

Any help really appreciated!

Joe

[Bill D (wwh)]

The biggest cache listing site is geocaching.com. (I can't comment on others, e.g. navicache, because I haven't used them.) If you're in the UK and you submit a cache to geocaching.com, your cache should meet their guidelines. Usually it'll be considered by an approver in the UK, who will put a local (UK) interpretation on the guidelines. For example, the guidelines say no caches near bridges, but that's a US terrorist threat thing (a cache container could be mistaken for a bomb), and in the UK it isn't seen as a problem.

The GAGB guidelines, as I understand it, are primarily intended as a starting point for negotiations with big landowners in Britain, for example the Forestry Commission, with a view to getting 'blanket permission' to hide caches on their land. Also, it's hoped that the GAGB guidelines will help to establish a code of good caching practice in this country.

That's how it seems to me, but I'm just a member of GAGB, so that's my own view not an official comment.

There doesn't seem to be a link to GAGB's home page from these forums, but you'll find it here. That should give you a better idea of what GAGB is all about.

[MCL]

We are trying to devise a set of guidelines such that if you follow ours, you will not be contravening any of the ones on the host listing site whether it be geocaching.com or navicache.com or whatever.

For instance the thing about plastic bags. We say that caches should not be in plastic bags. GC.com don't have an opinion on the subject, so if you keep to a no-bags practice, you won't be upsetting GC.com anyway.

Navicache don't mention bags either so they are hardly going to complain if you don't put your cache container in a plastic bag. So everyone is happy. And thats the way we are trying to do things.

[NattyBooshka]

The GC.com guidelines HAVE to be followed to have your cache listed on their site, and so would be the most important to consider when placing a cache.

The GAGB ones that are not covered by GC.com guidelines already are optional extras. Some are common sense, and there are probably very few caches placed already that breach these guidelines. Others are not so obvious... dry stone walls for example. I could place a cache in a dry stone wall (I have found a few that are) and ensure that there is no breach of the wall during the placement and that the wall appears exactly as it did before the addition of the cache and that the stones I replaced are infact as secure as they were... however, I would also be relying on the cache finders to do the same, and I do see that it would be possible for a finder of said cache to not be as stringent as I was, and replace the stones badly. We have a part of a cache in what used to be a dry stone wall... but most of it is now secured with cement (which sadly seems to be a trend these days when repairing a wall) and it is placed under a stone that is simply in the wall... it is not touching (therefore not supporting) any of the stones to either side or above... we've also made it obvious which stone our item is under, and it is just visible. We visit regularly to ensure that it has been replaced exactly as we left it. That said we would not consider placing an actual cache in a standing wall (there are several around here that are now just long abandoned piles of stones.)

I hope that we have a nice graphic available for use on our pages that has "GAGB approved" or something similar on it, so that we can promote the very sensible extra guidelines. I also hope that having such a graphic never becomes a requirement of having a cache listed on GC.com, as there are places and instances where a breach of the guidelines is OK... for example there are places where putting a cache in a plastic bag would be acceptable.

Cheers,
Neil (& EmilY)

[Teasel]

At the risk of repeating what's already been said...

GAGB has nothing to do with the cache approval process. When you place a cache, you must follow the rules of whatever listing site you choose (eg GC.com / Navicache), plus any extra rules imposed by the owner of the land.

Technically, everyone should consult the landowner before they place a cache (even if you have right of way, you have no right to cache). In practice, people rarely do and, with the sport growing as fast as it is, we fear this may lead to problems. Getting blanket agreements with landowners was one of the main reasons for founding GAGB.

The GAGB guidelines are not rules to be followed and are unlikely to be policed. They're just sensible behaviour which, if everyone follows them, will make it much easier to convince landowners that we're responsible people. They were based heavily on the HCC guidelines...

The HCC guidelines are, IMHO, rules, made to be followed, not optional guidelines. You may choose to break them, but should be aware that you are using the land in a manner which the landowner is uncomfortable with. Some language is quite "wooley" (eg night caching is only "discouraged"), suggesting that this rule may be more easily bent than the others (my personal interpretation), but at the end of the day, these are the landowners wishes and if you don't comply, caches could potentially be removed, whether or not they conform to the rules set by the listing sites.

When approaching landowners, the GAGB guidelines will provide a useful starting point for discussion. Hopefully whatever rules are agreed with individual landowners will consist of the standard GAGB guidelines with as few extras as possible.

[GeocacheJoe]

Originally posted by Teasel@Jan 14 2004, 11:02 AM
but at the end of the day, these are the landowners wishes and if you don't comply, caches could potentially be removed, whether or not they conform to the rules set by the listing sites.

Thanks for the super replies! That helps a lot. But what Teasel says worries me because I feel like I'm playing to a set of rules that are quite clear and a set of guidlines that can be wooley. I would have thought that the GaGB guideline should be "rules" because we have more to lose if we mess up. Why not be clearer and more precise? Is it that no one would follow the rules?
Maybe I just like to know where I stand too much (that's why I habe a GPS&#33.

[GeocacheJoe]

I keep reading the term "blanket permission to cache" with reference to hampshire ... is there anywhere else with blanket permission given? Any in the pipeline?

[GeocacheJoe]

I keep reading the term "blanket permission to cache" with reference to hampshire ... is there anywhere else with blanket permission given? Any in the pipeline?

Thanks! GJ

[Chris n Maria]

Originally posted by GeocacheJoe@Jan 14 2004, 12:24 PM
I would have thought that the GaGB guideline should be "rules" because we have more to lose if we mess up. Why not be clearer and more precise? Is it that no one would follow the rules?

Its not that no one would follow them, more that they are not particularly enforcable, A listing site can say it will not list a cache untill xyz requirments are met - GAGB are unable to enforce this.

So guidelines they have to be but if a landowner like HCC adopts them then they effectivly become rules for that area of land.

Chris

[Kouros]

Originally posted by GeocacheJoe@Jan 14 2004, 12:34 PM
I keep reading the term "blanket permission to cache" with reference to hampshire ... is there anywhere else with blanket permission given? Any in the pipeline?

The GAGB committee are in negotiations with at least one other major land owner, and others are in the pipeline. Because the game is so new, landowners are naturally a little wary of Geocaching.

In fact, Hampshire County Council were the first land owning body in the world to give blanket permission (kudos to all involved in that one&#33. Blanket permission will come from other owners, but it will take time.

In the meantime, if you approach a land owner to ask for permission to place a cache, it might be beneficial to take a list of these guidelines along with you, to show them what we try to adhere to. You could even ask if they have any suggestions.

By prominently showing the guidelines, we might just be able to demonstrate that we're all respectful of the fact that, to enjoy our game, we are making use of other peoples land.

As others have said, these guidelines are not rules (we would have no way of enforcing them) but nobody (unless being particularly malicious or deceitful) is going to flout them simply for the sake of doing so, and I would expect that the Land Owners or Management will respect that.