Changes to Earthcache Submittal Procedure

[Matthew 7:7 Too]

I have just come across a thread in the GC.com Earthcache forum that describes changes that are about to come into force governing the creation of Earthcaches.

(The thread is at https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/in...owtopic=236625)

Basically, Earthcaches will need to be submitted to GC.com after the 30th of November, and meet with all the normal cache rules, including proximity to any other caches, and being near where you live. There is already a debate in progress over whether this is good or bad, but it seems to be a done deal!

Chris

[gazooks]

I can sort of understand proximity as it appears to be the only type of cache that did not fall under that rule.

[nobbynobbs]

I can understand the proximity as well, I've got an earth cache and had someone place another cache almost ontop of it!

[Mad H@ter]

And the distance from home one is not so bad either, I know of some where the owner almost certainly has never visited the area and just copied and pasted the details from other peoples Earthcaches that got archived the last time the rules changed.

[Maple Leaf]

The Earthcache guidelines for submittal were updated on 1st January 2011

7. Requests for photographs must be optional. Exceptions to this guideline will only be considered if the requested photograph is related to an Earth Science logging activity such as recording a phenomenon.

This particular guidelines was updated on 1 January 2011. All EarthCaches must conform to this guideline as photo requests are considered "additional logging requirements" (ALRs) and follow the guidelines set forth by Geocaching.com.
Existing EarthCaches that do not meet this guideline must be updated to comply. Cache owners may not delete the cacher's log based solely on optional tasks.


There is also a thread in the Groundspeak forums about it.

[nobbynobbs]

I said it there and I'll say it here.

Ill conceived and ultimately likely to damage the reputation of earthcaches. Let the armchair logging begin....

Certainly my earthcache could now be done as an armchair cache. No point monitoring the logs now, they just made it a free for all.

[Bill D (wwh)]

Photo logs were accepted as proof of visit for virtuals, and as far as I know still are for the relatively few remaining virtuals. I see no reason why it should be different for earthcaches, and as Matt says this new guideline does seem ill conceived and ultimately damaging.

Edit to add: When I say "proof of visit" I mean sole proof of visit.

[Andalusite]

As some of you will know, I used to be GeoawareUK.

All I can say about this change (and all I am willing to say) is that this change was not driven forward by Groundspeak (although they do support it, obviously).

The EarthCache guidelines are set and updated by the good folks at earthcahe.org in conjunction with the Geoawares and are not administered by Groundspeak.

If you need help to rejig an existing cache in light of the new guidelines please contact one of the Geoawares - the UK reviewers have nothing to do with EarthCaches.

Andalusite

[Andalusite]

Some clarification on the reason for the guideline change has been published by Geoaware on the EarthCache forum here;

https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/in...post&p=4580498

I thank you all for your comments. However, I want to point out that the issue was based on the huge number of submissions that we received where the photograph was the main logging task and only a passing attempt was made to provide a task related to the earth science lesson at the site. Reviewers spent huge amounts of time going back to the CO asking them to provide a logging task that met the guidelines. It seemed that we needed to provide clearer directions.

We have never asked for logging tasks that were difficult - just tasks that made the visit educational. In the vast majority of cases taking a photograph does not do that. We asked (pleaded) that people be creative with their logging tasks...and we found that the vast majority could not do that over the last twelve months So the guideline has been changed.

I am sorry that it seems to have upset people, but the change was needed to maintain the quality of EarthCaches being developed so everyone had a great experience.

I hope this helps.

[Happy Humphrey]

Certainly my earthcache could now be done as an armchair cache. No point monitoring the logs now, they just made it a free for all.

Normally earthcaches provide some sort of task, with several questions to answer. I'm not familiar with your earthcache, but surely it should be pretty difficult to log without giving the correct answers? And if the answers are easy enough to find on Wikipedia, they must be too weak anyway.
I can't understand why the requirement to submit photos is seen as so vital. Even though I'm keen on photography, I find that sort of requirement a pain. Earthcaches are fairly awkward and tedious to log anyway, without adding in some sort of "proof that you were there" photo.
Plus, what sort of odd person logs an earthcache when they didn't visit - what's the point of that?

[nobbynobbs]

The sort of odd person that logs any cache from their armchair, it happens, we all know it does.

My two earthcaches are in Dorset. One requires you to take a photo of a fossil with your gps for scale and identify the fossil, which they can do from the information building ( or easily from the internet) sorry if that is deemed too much hassle or too easy a question.

the other asks you to number the beds , and again a photo to prove you're there because again it's possible to answer from the internet.

The level of question required is fairly low and subsiquently is fairly easily answered from a simple internet search. i can understand part of the problem but cant really see the issue, why not allow photos as proof in conjunction with a question? but the decision has been made, maybe we will not see a sudden rise in logs. maybe we'll suddenly get many many european cachers flying in for a short earthcache trip.....

[Bear and Ragged]

i can understand part of the problem but cant really see the issue, why not allow photos as proof in conjunction with a question?

Having to provide a photo was seen as an Additional Logging Requirement...

I have/had no problem with providing the photograph.
I think some Earthcache owners were insisting you had to show your face in the photo... There were protests at that!

Photo -yes, of me? No.

Happy to have GPS and left hand in the Photo. h34r:
I've often taken a photograph of my foot/feet with a cache-cam to prove I was there! :lol:

[Happy Humphrey]

My two earthcaches are in Dorset. One requires you to take a photo of a fossil with your gps for scale and identify the fossil, which they can do from the information building ( or easily from the internet) sorry if that is deemed too much hassle or too easy a question.

the other asks you to number the beds , and again a photo to prove you're there because again it's possible to answer from the internet.

I've done an earthcache in Dorset (the one that used to be at Charmouth) but never bothered logging it.

All the earthcaches I've done since (and also mostly not logged!) have had a fairly detailed geological task to perform, or a series of questions.

You just have to design the questions bearing in mind what internet searches can supply.

Obviously, the reason for the new guideline being enforced is that cache owners were failing to design any meaningful educational task into the earthcache. That makes the earthcache rather worthless from the point of view of earthcache.org, and the main way that cache owners were avoiding this responsibility was by making the cache into a Virtual / ALR cache by simply asking for photographic proof of visit.

So all I'm saying is that photographic proof of visit is irrelevant for earthcaches; and what you need to do is ensure that the questions aren't easy to answer without visiting the site. As an aside, if a few people bypass this by getting the correct answers from home, then let them. How would it affect anyone else? If dozens are doing it, then clearly the answers are too easy to obtain and the earthcache "needs maintenance", so that the number of logs doesn't get excessive.

[sandvika]

I think that photos are pointless for some Earthcaches, but for others, such as river bore earthcaches, providing a record of the event encapsulates the essence of the cache - you're most unlikely to get your own image of it without making the necessary effort.

I have no issue with providing photos with GPSrs for any kind of virtual cache, it's a perfectly reasonable safeguard against armchair caching. I've deleted a 'find' on one of my locationless caches when someone posted a Google Streetview photo. If that person had just provided the coordinates and had not been obliged to provide a photo, I'd not have known that it was armchair caching.